The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

A good friend of mine picked this up for me a couple of weeks ago, and I just got it last weekend. I've never owned an early IV and when this one came up for sale it was kind of hard to leave sit. The guy that had it bought it with a load of furniture and had no interest in it. It must have been in a barn loft or garage loft for a long time from the way it looked. It was full of mouse dirt around the horn, but he must have dug out the worst of what was in the horn. There was still a mess up in the iron elbow in back and it still stinks pretty badly, but it's really in pretty good shape all things considered. The brake even has the leather in it, and I've never seen that in this style brake before. It's worn down and won't stop the turntable, but that's not a big deal. It runs, but when it gets warm out I'll take the motor apart and clean it up. The case is still really dirty and needs to be cleaned a lot better than what I've done here. I just thought you guys might like to see some pictures of it. I think it's supposed to have a nickel plated grille to hide the motor and that's gone. I'll have to see about finding one of those and I would guess even the later painted one's will work and I can get one plated. It must have just been stuck in a box a long, long time ago and was just forgotten about. The serial number on it is 3941 and that paper on the bottom is dated February 24th, 1911 if you can't read it in the photo. Whatever it was originally varnished with or over-coated with later, it sure crinkled that paper up. It's amazing it's still there though.

You have a very fine machine there. It looks to be original finish or a very old refinish base on your comments of varnish over the paper labels. These machines are what I like to find but are getting hard to come by. You can bring the old finish back to life without refinishing it using many different technics. When you talk dirt and such, that can be removed to revile the original finish in whatever state it is in. This can be very pleasing after cleaning. But if it is not what you want you have your own options if you like. I have a VV-VI that I acquired last year but the cabinet had been poorly refinished which opened up one of my own restores.

Nice find! I hope the restoration goes well.

I love those Type M VV-IVs. I have two of them myself. Something about the nickel grille really makes them pop. I can say from experience that finding that grille is VERY tough. I'm curious what you meant by "later painted one" though. I'm not familiar with that. Also, while it looks like the Exhibition sound box has been on your machine a very long time, I think a Victor O soundbox would be more appropriate. That said, a very nice machine, and I'm very happy it's being saved.

Steve.

It's likely I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the earlier one's had a nickel plated grille, then they went to a painted grille, and then the wood slat thing. I've honestly never paid that much attention to this model as I've almost always seen the later one's with the round cranks, et. The thing hardly weighs anything too yet, it almost needs to be screwed down to something when it's being wound up. Eventually I'll get a grill found for it, and I'll also have to ask about one on that part of the forum. I've been busy going through a pump organ this week and haven't had much time to deal with the phonographs around here. Haha!

That is a beautiful Victrola IV--and well worth restoring. Hopefully you can find the metal grill.

And congratulations on the pump organ too; I was practicing on one this evening! Pump organs are as addictive as phonographs. I traded five records for it, which I'd bought for 44 cents each, so I got myself a quartersawn oak organ from 1892 for two dollars and twenty-three cents. Not a bad deal. It's not a fancy one but it gets the job done adequately and is a great little practice keyboard.

This organ I'm working on was built in 1867 and it's one of those rarely seen Estey organs with a third pedal to operate the vox humana. It's in really well kept condition and outside of a little bit of mouse damage, and a million bugs partying until they ran out of felt to eat, it's a pretty straight forward restoration.

40 years ago I met one of the organists for the organ in the Salt Lake tabernacle and we visited for about 10-15 minutes and during the conversation he asked me what I had to practice on and I told him it was a little Chicago Cottage organ. And he said "You meant a pump organ?" I nodded yes, and he said, "Young man, at least with a pump organ you have an instrument and never forget that. Those electronic things are just gadgets. They are just gadgets!" He was a funny guy and I've thought about that statement quite a few times since then.

Anyway, I'm sure a grille will turn up for the little guy. These IV's and VI's are often times in really bad shape, and I could see where the outside horn crowd (especially years ago) would have used as many of these up for parts as they could get their hands on. I asked the guy about the grille when I bought it, but he didn't know what I was talking about. But that doesn't mean it wasn't around wherever it sat for all those years and he just didn't realize what it went to. He goes around buying up what's left of estates and that sort of thing. I wouldn't expect an antique dealer to know about that sort of thing, but it is surprising how many dealers I've run across over the years, that have been in business for years and it seems they have learned almost nothing from experience. I had one dealer a few years ago ask me if a set of china she had was old. So I looked at the back and said that they couldn't be very old and she wanted to know why? She is at least 65 years old and I said " they say Microwave safe on the back" and she still had a puzzled look on her face!

I think there is something about an early VV-IV, ---The metal grill that has it unique, being the only Victor machine with this characteristic. I have one missing the turntable, after buying about 3 early VV-IV turntables ---they turned out being from the following generation of production BUT that is the fun of collecting. Glad when you can complete a machine that has gone through over 100 years. Hope a grill finds it way to where it belongs. Best of Luck