The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I thought I would share my cleaning tips and see what comments and criticisms and additional suggestions come back.

Dry Cleaning

Magnet Cleaning
I have a large, powerful flat ring magnet. I wrap this in a soft terry towel or velvet cloth and run it around the surface of the record in a circular motion, from the outside towards the centre. I then take the cloth off the magnet and shake it out. I don’t know if this action actually does anything, since any ferrous metal pieces picked up, needle filings, will be too small for the naked eye. However, it doesn’t hurt anything. It only takes a few seconds. And theoretically, it might do something. I do not do this habitually. I did it with all new acquisitions coming into the collection when the only playback devices I had were magnetic cartridges with jewel tips. I might do it now if I take an acoustic gramophone played disk and go to play it on my modern 78 speed turntable.

Vacuum Cleaning (Household or Record Cleaning Machine)

Vacuum Cleaners
Take a piece of heavy terry towel, such as a hand towel that is nearing the end of its life but is not yet thread bare, hold part of it over the nozzle of the vacuum cleaner very firmly, hold a 78 securely supported in your lap with one hand, turn the vacuum cleaner on while holding the towel firmly over the nozzle, place the nozzle on the surface of the record and slowly work it around the record and slowly towards the centre in a spiral. If you have a powerful vacuum, open the drapes suction bypass. If you have a vacuum with variable speed/suction control, lower the speed/suction. The towel will come up black/grey. It will be darkest around the ring formed by the nozzle. Move the nozzle to another section of terry towel and repeat for the other side of the record. You may wish to do this outside or in a well ventilated place while wearing a good particle mask even if your vacuum has a HEPA filter exhaust. I don’t imagine the fine black dust is good for your lungs. You may also wish to wear hearing protection. It is a noisy job. I probably would not risk putting an extremely valuable, rare and irreplaceable record under the force of this suction. I generally do this once with all new acquisitions.

Record Cleaning Machine
You can dry clean 78s on a vacuum record cleaning machine. I have an Okki Nokki. I have a 12” vacuum arm that was falling apart that I modified for use with 78s. Most 10” arms for vacuum record cleaners are only suitable for Microgroove records; these arms often/mostly do not cover the play area of a 78 or reach the run-out area. You can use a brush ahead of the vacuum arm to loosen debris – I have a variety of brushes of varying degrees of stiffness. I use a coarse nylon bristled nail brush for very soiled records. This process is not as effective as the vacuum cleaner treatment – the suction is much less powerful. Again, you will want to set your record cleaning machine up in a well ventilated area and wear a particle mask and hearing protection. Most/many vacuum record cleaners have no exhaust filtering, and most are noisy.

Wet Cleaning

I do not generally like wet cleaning 78s. Having done French polishing on various bits of woodwork, I am aware that shellac finishes and water are not a good mix. I have never washed 78s in the kitchen sink, for example.

But I do sometimes do wet cleaning with my Okki Nokki. I use my own brews of distilled and filtered water and detergent. I also use commercial preparations that the manufacturer certifies as safe for 78s. I use distilled and filtered water rinses after cleaning. I use a variety of brushes to apply the fluids and/or scrub the records depending upon condition. I brush them in both rotational directions. A vacuum record cleaner is highly effective at removing liquid from a record surface and drying it very quickly. I again recommend particle masks (or better industrial double-pumper pesticide grade masks) – no exhaust filters, remember. I also recommend hearing protection. I do not play a 78 cleaned in this way for several days afterwards, preferring to let any water-softening of the shellac dry out and re-harden. Wet cleaning with a vacuum record cleaning machine often has very, very dramatic results. But it is very much a case of be careful of what you ask for because you just might get it. How many 78 enthusiasts want an incredible increase in musical detail from their disks? Everybody puts up their hands. Ha, ha, gotcha! You also get an incredible increase in acoustic detail about the damage your record has suffered over the decades. The grunge of the decades tends to muffle things a bit, both the music and the damage – sometimes this is a good thing.

Mould and Mildew

Your saviour here is Juniperus virginiana, a North American juniper tree commonly and erroneously known as red cedar.

https://www.wood-database.com/aromatic-red-cedar/

Its wood has both fungicidal and insecticidal properties. It was used to line cedar chests, which many/most women in North America had in the days before central heating. Valuable clothing (woolens, silks, linens, leather goods, and furs), valuable books, and such were stored in them to protect them from insects and fungi.

The wood’s jointer and planer shavings from lumber mills used to be sold in pet stores for use in the cages of pet rodents as bedding – being very aromatic, it kept down odours . It is no longer used for this purpose because it generally poisoned the little rodents when they chewed on it – it is fairly toxic. It is now used on the floors of kennels and horse stalls where it keeps down both odours and fleas and ticks. But it can cause respiratory problems here. It is available in large bags from many horse tack shops. It is not expensive.

I have used it to treat vintage musical instruments - guitars, mandolins, and lutes and their cases - that have had mildew infestations. I have used it on vintage guitar amplifiers. I have used it on LP records and books. I have used it on 78s and their sleeves. There is no reason it could not be used on gramophone cabinets.

I make a tea. I fill a bucket with the juniper shavings, pack it down, and then pour boiling water into it. I allow it to cool and then filter it through multiple layers of cheese cloth. I use this as a wash for anything that can safely be washed – washing with a cloth soaked in the tea – for some things a damp cloth will be better than a wet cloth. Test first that the tea does not stain what you are working on. I do not rinse. I allow it to dry.

Then I pack everything (inside and out) with the dry shavings inside some airtight container, a large plastic garbage bag, a sealed box or crate - or whatever. Mechanical or electrical components of things I put in old pillow cases or sheets first. Instruments with F-holes get the F-holes blocked with cheese cloth – too hard to get the shavings and dust out. Then I leave it all sealed up for a month or two. The mould/mildew problem is generally solved.

For musical instruments, I generally place a laundry delicates bag full of shavings inside the case after treatment and refresh the shavings every few years.

For records, Lps, 45s, 78s, and sleeves, I have never had to resort to anything more than wiping with the tea dampened cloth – I have never washed them in the tea or with a wet cloth – before packing them away in shavings. After treatment, I clean them with the vacuum record cleaner, wet or dry as seems appropriate – and then let them dry really well before putting them away.

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:06 pm I do not generally like wet cleaning 78s. Having done French polishing on various bits of woodwork, I am aware that shellac finishes and water are not a good mix. I have never washed 78s in the kitchen sink, for example.

All the contrary, this experience should have told you that shellac is not soluble in water, and that washing records in water is perfectly safe. I believe that 99% of the members of this forum, the writer included, wash records in water (adding some kind of detergent, about which opinions and habits vary) since many many decades and can grant that it is absolutely safe.

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:12 am

Lah Ca wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:06 pm I do not generally like wet cleaning 78s. Having done French polishing on various bits of woodwork, I am aware that shellac finishes and water are not a good mix. I have never washed 78s in the kitchen sink, for example.

All the contrary, this experience should have told you that shellac is not soluble in water, and that washing records in water is perfectly safe. I believe that 99% of the members of this forum, the writer included, wash records in water (adding some kind of detergent, about which opinions and habits vary) since many many decades and can grant that it is absolutely safe.

Interesting. Thank you for the reply.

I have always been a bit afraid of wet cleaning 78s and have generally sided with those opposed to it - for no well informed reason it now seems.

For wood work, I use varnish, tung oil, polyurethane, and rarely nitrocellulose lacquer. I have not done French polishing in years as it requires a bit more work. I have noticed that French polished furniture seems more susceptible to water damage than furniture with some other finishes. Drink rings from the condensation from glasses containing iced beverages , for example, will leave mottled white rings in the finish that sometimes do not dry out but need to be polished out. Perhaps, I have mistaken this phenomenon as a water solubility of shellac.

Thanks again.

I venture to say that the white spots are due to certain porosity of the finish... Water comes into and below the finish, actually wetting the wood, and causing the finish to separate from the wood... Thus the white spots; you cannot see the wood below the crystal finish anymore. There is vapour or air, or water in between...

Inigo wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:38 pm I venture to say that the white spots are due to certain porosity of the finish... Water comes into and below the finish, actually wetting the wood, and causing the finish to separate from the wood... Thus the white spots; you cannot see the wood below the crystal finish anymore. There is vapour or air, or water in between...

So my initial observation that shellac finishes (on wood) are not a good mix with water may still be correct. My transference of this observation to shellac-compound 78 records may not be appropriate and my anxieties about 78s and water thusly misplaced.

Me too have been cleaning each new 78 with mild dish soap (a small qty) in a bowl of warm tap water. Mix the liquids, then dip a fine bristle shoe brush and proceed on the grooved surface, with circular movements (small) all around, and ample circular movements along the grooves, with some back and forth brushing action, etc. Carefully not to wet the labels. Then rinse under a thin warm water running under the tap, carefully not to wet the labels. Then let the water drop away from the record (if the runout area is dry and you control the record under the tap, it's fairly easy to maintain the water away from the label). Then help the water out from the record with naked fingers, then dry with a first towel, then another soft towel to dry again, et voilá. Having done this for 44 years with no problems, except if the water runs into the labels! Still keep my first 78s of 1978 in good shape!

Maybe this post only indicates that American music of the late-'20's is not widely collected but the idea of "submerging" Victor and Brunswick pressings from that era in water is jaw-droppingly awful to my way of thinking. Those records are very hygroscopic and anyone who has found a long sought after unplayed Victor scroll only to see the sparkly grain indicating the effect of dampness knows how sad that is. Somewhat counter-intuitively, Columbia laminated pressing surfaces seem almost impervious to water (although the labels are definitely not).
-Dave

Referenced thought the Library of Congress, I found this link to the Northeast Document Conservation Center archive on how to clean shellac or lacquer records (you will note the use of water) as well as a recommendation not to use paper as a storage sleeve.

https://www.nedcc.org/audio-preservation/cleaning-discs

Robert

The Conservation Center's comments are interesting but significantly off-topic. Lacquer discs are very much a thing unto themselves and whatever I said about late-20's Victors likely does not apply to them. More caveats occurred to me after I thought over my submission although where the specific records I mentioned are considered the effects of moisture are incontrovertible. The effects are not nearly as noticeable on acoustic-era Victors and my guess is that the late-20's discs contain a higher proportion of "filler" -an economy move that unintentionally gave them their hygroscopic weakness. It's easy enough to imagine even an advanced record collector not being much bothered by this if his collection happened not to include Victor discs from this particular era.
-Dave

Again, from the Conservation Center:

https://www.nedcc.org/fundamentals-of-a ... -section-3

Directions found directly following cleaning directions for lacquer coated discs:

"Shellac Discs

Read notes for all items above.
Do not submerge in water.
Shellac can be cleaned in a solution of distilled water and a few drops of mild dishwashing detergent.
Using a microfiber or other lint free cloth, wipe discs using a circular motion following the direction of the grooves.
Rinse in clean, distilled water.
Wipe again in a circular motion with a dry lint-free cloth.
Lay flat to dry.
Place in a clean sleeve."

To Dave's point, these conservation techniques speak of both shellac and lacquer as general categories of records and do not address the variety of substrates that either may or may not be effected by moisture, or if needle wear presents greater risk for moisture damage when cleaning.