The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

If you are looking for a used Japanese car, Honda and Toyota are your best bets for a long and happy car life with a relatively low total cost of ownership, or so my very competent mechanic insists. This is simply because the two have the largest market shares for Japanese cars. Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda, and Subaru all make excellent cars, but it will cost you more to own them. Parts are more expensive because the market is smaller. Fewer third party manufacturers make aftermarket parts. Fewer used parts are available. As these cars get older, they will become more difficult to support than Hondas and Toyotas.

Things that are exotic and rare are more costly and difficult to maintain.

I would imagine that the same is true for gramophones.

I starting to suspect that Victrolas are the Hondas and Toyotas of the gramophone world rolled into one. There are more of them around than any other brand I see here. Following up links posted on this site, I see that people still make (or will make) parts for them. I am starting to suspect that my Aeolian Vocalian is a Mitsubishi of sorts, or something even more obscure.

Since taking an interest in gramophones, I have been amazed to discover that there were just so many brands made. I have now seen Radiola, Sonotone, Emmerson, Columbia, Brunswick, Aeolian Vocalian, Edison, HMV, Thorens, and probably more. Here were I live, I have even seen an Indian gramophone.

Which are the best choices for beginning enthusiasts, the Hondas and Toyotas? Which are the ones that are best left to experienced enthusiasts?

I would imagine that there would be different answers for North America and Europe.

You have no idea of just how many companies made machines through the 1920s. Once the initial Berliner patents expired, literally hundreds of phonograph companies came into existence. These are generally referred to as "off brands". Tim Gracyk's excellent website has a long list of these companies, but even that list is far from complete. See here:
https://www.gracyk.com/makers.shtml

There are many interesting off brands, but because most were made in small quantities, parts can be difficult to find.

If you're a beginner just starting out, you will not go wrong with any of the common Victor Victrolas like the VIII, IX, X, XI or even XIV. Replacement parts for these are generally widely available and maintenance is minimal and not challenging.

On the cylinder side, the Edison Home and Standard are reliable workhorses with widely available parts.

The Diamond Disc is kind of its own category. The good news there is that the motors used after the initial series of machines are all nearly identical. That means parts are easily swapped between nearly any machines. I once had 2 nearly working machines and a working motor in my house. I was able to use the 3 motors to fix the 2 machines and still have plenty of good parts left.

I would also recommend buying a few books such as those published by George P and Tim F. Also, joining the APS in order to access great and invaluable resource material, including one publication (R J Wakeman) on the many "off" brands that were available like AV.

https://www.antiquephono.org/brand-talk ... j-wakeman/

I will stay by my opinion that Brunswick machines, of any era, are the finest quality. Good build, lovely to look at, very pleasant to listen to, and common enough to find parts for.

gramophone78 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:33 pm I would also recommend buying a few books such as those published by George P and Tim F. Also, joining the APS in order to access great and invaluable resource material, including one publication (R J Wakeman) on the many "off" brands that were available like AV.

https://www.antiquephono.org/brand-talk ... j-wakeman/

^^^this.

-Fran

The best brands to look for, as stated above, are Victor, Edison, and Brunswick.

In the UK the big three in terms of production volume were HMV, Columbia and Decca.
HMV's reputation for quality enabled them to sell a premium product to a mass market. They probably have the highest survival rate today, and their prices in today's market reflect their continuing appeal to collectors.

There were dozens of small firms manufacturing gramophones from bought in mechanical components, mostly in the lower and medium price ranges. In the UK we call them "assembled" gramophones, which sounds less disparaging than "off brand", a term which I detest.

Even EMG and Expert, the finest acoustic gramophones ever made, were produced by small firms and used bought in motors. No such terms are used to categorise them. They are in a class of their own.

Very subjective of course but the very best for me are :

Almost any HMV brand, particularly the 101 Portable. (I especially like my Dark Blue Crocodile HMV 101 which almost looks black and sounds fantastic).

The Portable Orchorsal (with of course the 'correct' soundbox) and :

Specifically the Gilbert Mahogany floor-standing Model 52.

Oh, many Off Brands are excellent too. Some of my Off Brands have no identification marks so who knows.

Buy what you like and don't worry about.

I like the classic outside horn machines, the kind you see in cartoons, so that's what I go after and the closest thing to that are the Victor machines.
I don't like the European machines so much, generally speaking the motors on them can be a bit small.

The problem with the out-side horn machines is that they are expensive, especially with the wood horns.
The Victor table top ones where the horn is inside the cabinet are easy work on, and inexpensive, but not very interesting _ still, there are lots of them around with lots of parts.

Phonographs are not cars, one can't compare apples to oranges.

JeffR1 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:56 pm Buy what you like and don't worry about.

I like the classic outside horn machines, the kind you see in cartoons, so that's what I go after and the closest thing to that are the Victor machines.
I don't like the European machines so much, generally speaking the motors on them can be a bit small.

The problem with the out-side horn machines is that they are expensive, especially with the wood horns.
The Victor table top ones where the horn is inside the cabinet are easy work on, and inexpensive, but not very interesting _ still, there are lots of them around with lots of parts.

Phonographs are not cars, one can't compare apples to oranges.

I do wish Victor had made more tabletops later on. Never made sense to me why there weren't more budget machines in the 30s.