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Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:31 pm
by Lah Ca
The owner's manual for Aeolian Vocalian machines provides fairly detailed instructions on what to lubricate. The illustrations are a bit cryptic, however.
The manual insists on the use of
Aeolian-Vocalian Movement Oil and
Aeolian-Vocalian Spring Lubricant. Movement lubrication is something Aeolian-Vocalian sees as being within the competence of the owner. Spring lubrication (repacking the springs) is advised to be left to the professional Aeolian-Vocalian gramophone maintenance person.
There are two problems here: 1) it is no longer possible to wander on down to Aeolian Hall in NYC or to a local AV dealership to purchase movement oil or spring lubricant; and 2) there are no longer any Aeolian-Vocalian dealerships with professional maintenance people.
What grade and weight of oil is best used for movement lubrication?
What grade of grease (I assume grease) is best used for spring repacking (and is this truly something best left to someone who actually knows what they are doing)?
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:52 pm
by Herderz
Well you could ponder on the 100 year old instruction but modern lubricates are far better than the old choices. You could mix the old style graphite with Vaseline for the main springs but I use synthetic grease for a modern approach. They used their recommended oil which nobody truly knows what that is, or I use clock oil on the pivots and bushings as I know it will stay in place. But a modern synthetic oil will do the same This is only my option mine you.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:04 pm
by phonogfp
There will be a variety of opinions on this topic. There's really no question that lubricants have come a long, long way over the past century. (Consider that even as recently as the early 1970s a car with 50 thousand miles on it was pretty much worn out.) Yet there are people who I like and respect (even friends) who slavishly insist that a mixture of graphite and Vaseline - just like they did a century ago - is the best recipe for mainspring lubricant. I don't deny that it works...for a short time (as evidenced by the Aeolian-Vocalion instructions you're copied), but there are far better products now. Personally, I've had good luck with lithium grease and/or Permatex Superlube with Teflon. I've been at this more better than 50 years now, and I've seen my share of dried-out Vaseline that I had applied in my younger years.
And for the life of me I don't see how anyone can continue to recommend Three-In-One oil. Sure, the manufacturers recommended it a century and more ago, but again... Tri-Flow, Lubit-8, or any synthetic formulated with P.T.F.E. will outperform paraffin-based oils such as Three-In-One. These light oils are perfect for governors and lighter gears.
I use grease on the bull and secondary gears. For middle gears I'll use 30-weight motor oil. Easy does it. Too little lube is useless, too much attracts dirt/dust.
That's my opinion, and like other things - everybody has one.
George P.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:52 pm
by gramophone78
If I can add to Georges post. There are several great threads on this topic posted in our Tip, Tricks, & Tutorials section. You may want to try a search.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:40 pm
by Henry
phonogfp wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:04 pm
Consider that even as recently as the early 1970s a car with 50 thousand miles on it was pretty much worn out.
George P.
Tell it to my 1970 Dodge Dart w/225c.i. slant six---I got 179K miles out of it.
But the body was fairly well rusted.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:54 pm
by phonogfp
Henry wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:40 pm
Tell it to my 1970 Dodge Dart w/225c.i. slant six---I got 179K miles out of it.
But the body was fairly well rusted.
Well, I had a 1968 Nova that eventually hit around 130,000 and was still going strong (when I sold it), but - like your Dodge - it had the benefit of improved motor oils that became available in the 1970s. I assume you didn't put all those miles on it in a year or two.
George P.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:55 am
by Lah Ca
gramophone78 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:52 pm
If I can add to Georges post. There are several great threads on this topic posted in our
Tip, Tricks, & Tutorials section. You may want to try a search.
I did search before starting this thread, but I couldn't come up with a set of search tags that would produce meaningfully focused results. Most frustrating. There is such a wealth of information throughout this site, but it is not always easy to find. A lot of it is appended tangentially to a wide variety of topics -- "Oh and BTW .....".
When you know something extremely well and have known it for so long that it has almost become a part of your being, that knowledge can start to seem like basic commonsense, when really it isn't - one tends to forget how hard earned that knowledge was, it can become hard to understand what others do not know. I do not always understand what I read here, because I do not, yet, know enough to decode what is written.
In other contexts, I am guilty of the same assumptions about things being
common sense, much to the frustration of my wife, children, co-workers, corporate subordinates, trainees, and students over the years. It is perhaps one of the ways of the world. LOL.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:56 am
by Lah Ca
Herderz wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:52 pm
Well you could ponder on the 100 year old instruction but modern lubricates are far better than the old choices. You could mix the old style graphite with Vaseline for the main springs but I use synthetic grease for a modern approach. They used their recommended oil which nobody truly knows what that is, or I use clock oil on the pivots and bushings as I know it will stay in place. But a modern synthetic oil will do the same This is only my option mine you.
Thanks.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:57 am
by Lah Ca
phonogfp wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:04 pm
There will be a variety of opinions on this topic. There's really no question that lubricants have come a long, long way over the past century. (Consider that even as recently as the early 1970s a car with 50 thousand miles on it was pretty much worn out.) Yet there are people who I like and respect (even friends) who slavishly insist that a mixture of graphite and Vaseline - just like they did a century ago - is the best recipe for mainspring lubricant. I don't deny that it works...for a short time (as evidenced by the Aeolian-Vocalion instructions you're copied), but there are far better products now. Personally, I've had good luck with
lithium grease and/or
Permatex Superlube with Teflon. I've been at this more better than 50 years now, and I've seen my share of dried-out Vaseline that I had applied in my younger years.
And for the life of me I don't see how anyone can continue to recommend Three-In-One oil. Sure, the manufacturers recommended it a century and more ago, but again...
Tri-Flow, Lubit-8, or any synthetic formulated with P.T.F.E. will outperform paraffin-based oils such as Three-In-One. These light oils are perfect for governors and lighter gears.
I use grease on the bull and secondary gears. For middle gears I'll use
30-weight motor oil. Easy does it. Too little lube is useless, too much attracts dirt/dust.
That's my opinion, and like other things - everybody has one.
George P.
Thank you for the very detailed reply.
Re: Lubricants?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:59 am
by phonogfp
You're very welcome.
George P.