The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This is a general question: Let's say you have a floor model machine (so it can't be sold as-is and shipped) that sits somewhere in that gray zone between definitely restore it and definitely part it out -- a nice, uncommon, and not basic machine, but not a super-rare, super-valuable, or super-unusual one, that maybe needs some cabinet repair and refinishing, or has a couple of broken mainsprings or is missing some parts, or maybe all of that -- how do you decide whether to restore it or part it out? I'm not looking for a moral argument here; as far as I'm concerned, I understand both those who feel we have a responsibility to preserve these machines whole, and those who feel we are doing other collectors a service by parting them out, and I don't want or need to hear the feelings-based cases for either side. I'd just like to know what unemotional metrics and data points you use to to help you make the call. Thanks!

There are too many variables to give a direct answer to your question.

Here's a thread about a machine I had that was in the kind of grey area you discuss. I decided to part it out since (in my opinion) the cabinet was past the point of saving:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7031&hilit=orthophonic+veneer

Here is what some might consider a borderline case which I took on as a winter project.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=50460&hilit=HMV511

It is now nearing completion, and if I were to sell it I might get more for the quadruple spring motor and excellent gold plated fittings than for the complete machine. After all the work I have put into it, I could not bring myself to break it for parts.

... unemotional metrics and data points ...

What will it cost in time & money to restore/repair, versus what can you net in the sale of parts. That's about as unemotional as it gets.

In my opinion however, measuring something's true worth on a monetary scale only, would be a real shame. But, sometimes I guess you've got to "fish or cut bait" on certain projects and you've got to break it down to basics.

I have restored a few machines... some of them were NOT worth the time and effort I put into it. But at the end of the day, I had a nice working machine that I was able to enjoy. Now, I would only restore a machine if I could keep the cost of restoring it under or at what the machine is worth. Just my opinion.

David

At the end of the day it depends on the make, model, and machine--but--most of my very best machines all came back from the brink, except for a boxed Victor III.

Since not every day do you find a phonograph in the original box, it's easier for me to just buy sad-looking old heaps and wrench for a few months until they're ready to make music. Not saying you'll save money at it, but you'll save phonographs--and money's just money; we can make more of it and in these days nobody has enough of it.

The floor model you're mentioning I'd probably say would be a candidate for refinishing. I figure a broken spring doesn't disqualify a machine; those are wear items. I wouldn't part out an old car for having flat tires or a stuck valve; that's stuff you want to fix anyway before you get it on the road. And finishes are also a wear item in my book--it's nice to have a clean one, but after 90, 100, 120 years I can hardly expect it to be perfect. So if I want to shine it up I bank on having to refinish.

My metrics:

• when am I going to see another one?
  can I get this apart?
  can I get parts for fixing this, and how long will it take?
  will it be something I'd like to keep when it's done?
  how will it sound?

And there is also a bunch of unhelpful sentimentalism going into my final decision:

• wouldn't I like to have one of those,
  can it run? Then it should,
  Betcha I can fix it--
  They aren't making any more of them
  I can do a better job on this one than the last one!

And that is why I spend far too much time and money on my old phonographs, but I love fixing them, and they do seem to play all right when I'm done--though it's funny when a $40 Brunswick can outperform a $275 Victrola. It was never about money.

There's an Edison Gem around here for projects material right now that I have to figure out how to turn a pulley for. (The upper pulley in the mandrel.) Nobody makes those pulleys, but I think I could--and I bought it to fix it up. It's a common 2m black Gem A but it's still going to be cool all fixed up. And that's it--I work by the Rule of Cool.

Someone parted out a working Rigid Arm Victor in the Trader section awhile ago & of course eBay is full of scrapped machines because the parts are worth more than the intact examples. I figure restoration now means more phonographs for later.

About 35 years ago, while living in western Oklahoma, I found a VV 4-7 for sale. It was in poor condition. Most parts were there, however. I salvaged what I could. The motor was used for school lessons (I was an elementary school teacher) to teach science concepts such as gravity, friction, vibration, and force. The motor and a few parts have been in a box in a closet for years. Then a young collector posted a project for restoring a Victrola and needed a motor. So, I sent it to the young collector and now it has a use! Over the years, other parts were reused, sold, or stored. It will now be part of a project for the restoration of another Victrola.

For what it is worth, I would base my decision on rarity. Notice I did not say value - seems like they aren't directly related, LOL. If I have a rare off brand that I am probably not going to run back across in the next 18 months, I would not part it out. It has a certain historical significance, although regional, but still significant. If I had a common Grafonola or Victrola floor model that is "too far gone," I would be more willing to part it out as I am likely to see 2 more by the end of the month at every antique mall....

Again, rarity - not value, would be the basis of my decision.

I guess I'm not as sentimental as maybe I should be, my criteria is simple, If the end monetary value of the machine is not worth the time and money put into it to restore it , then sell it as is or part it out, You Can't Save Every Puppy In The Pound, Others can take your parts and bring machines that are perhaps in better condition back to life. If no one ever parted a machine out there sure would be a lot of incomplete projects out there.