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It struck me yesterday how relatively few titles were offered by Edison on Blue Amberol.

In the popular series, which comprises most of what was offered there were ~4200 titles, many copied from earlier wax amberols. Putting that aside ~4200 titles from ~1910 - 1930 is only about 210 titles a year.

If 210 titles were issued on LP, averaging about 10 songs per album, that would only be ~21 LP albums per year or ~420 LP albums over an ~ 20 year period.

many people today buy more than the total annual output of Edison cylinders.

I guess music was much more dear then and buying a record or cylinder was a big deal at 0.35 - 0.50cents each. In todays dollars buying a CD or downloading an I-tune is much much cheaper...

35-50c probably was a huge deal. When I started buying singles in the mid 70's, I was getting 25c a day for lunch money, and I'd have to go without little lunch for a week to save up the 49c to buy my next 45rpm lol. I never bought a $1.99 lp myself until high school, but for birthdays & xmas I was allowed to pick an LP or cassette to receive on the day.
When I started school in 1971, a meat pie for lunch cost 5c, so I'd imagine in 1915 or there abouts, 35c was probably equivelant to the cost of a weeks groceries?

Now adjust those numbers according to the US population -- 92 million in 1910 vs 308 million in 2010.

Insignificant by the standards of the 1920's.

If the cylinder was a medium fast fading in popularity after 1915 or so, it doesn't surprise me. Smaller market.

"Production" is not the same as "selection", which is what you're talking about. They weren't yet grinding-out cheap throw-away music and records until the 1920s - and Edison never did, much to the chagrin of the distributors and dealers. Once the family's collection of standards was complete (or the cabinet was filled, whichever came first) record purchases were few & far between. The total sale of Edison Disc machines was around 250,000 and total Diamond Discs about 20 million - so the average collecton was 80 discs. Amberol, Victor,and other collections were probably similar, with adjustments for only 1 selection per cylinder. Edison's cylinder sales reached a low around 1915, then gradually rose and were fairly decent until a peak in 1921, when sales crashed. Why people bought the crummy dubbed Damberols is beyond me, but maybe new Amberolas were sold based on demos with LIVE recordings.

Today's production and consumption isn't much to crow about (with a wide selection of mostly garbage); USA CD sales are dismal and stores have been disappearing for years. Even digital downloads are slowing. Maybe things would be different if there was any decent music being made, but most people know only cr*p and couldn't appreciate real music, so that's doubtful.

Edisone wrote:"Production" is not the same as "selection", which is what you're talking about. Once the family's collection of standards was complete (or the cabinet was filled, whichever came first) record purchases were few & far between. The total sale of Edison Disc machines was around 250,000 and total Diamond Discs about 20 million - so the average collecton was 80 discs. Amberol, Victor,and other collections were probably similar, with adjustments for only 1 selection per cylinder.

You are right, I did mean "selection" not "production". So if someone had ~80 discs that's the vinyl or CD equivalent of only 8-12 LPs. I knew many peoplle in my college years, that had a couple hundred CDs.

Edisone wrote: Why people bought the crummy dubbed Damberols is beyond me, but maybe new Amberolas were sold based on demos with LIVE recordings.

I wonder how they kept the people who bought an Opera or 1B in 1911 from being totally irate that by the end of 1914 only those dubbings were available? For people who bought the Amb 30/50/75 from 1915 onwards, at least they knew what they were getting into and anyway the dubbing is not as noticeable on those machines.

Edisone wrote: Today's production and consumption isn't much to crow about (with a wide selection of mostly garbage); USA CD sales are dismal and stores have been disappearing for years. Even digital downloads are slowing. Maybe things would be different if there was any decent music being made, but most people know only cr*p and couldn't appreciate real music, so that's doubtful.

I guess I can see why today's production and consumption is down. I agree that most of todays music is mostly garbage. To a great extent it has a lot more to do with sex and shock value. Lady Goo Ga comes to mind...

Valecnik wrote:

Edisone wrote: Why people bought the crummy dubbed Damberols is beyond me, but maybe new Amberolas were sold based on demos with LIVE recordings.

I wonder how they kept the people who bought an Opera or 1B in 1911 from being totally irate that by the end of 1914 only those dubbings were available? For people who bought the Amb 30/50/75 from 1915 onwards, at least they knew what they were getting into and anyway the dubbing is not as noticeable on those machines.

Sorry to veer off the topic of the thread, but I've wondered about this, too. Putting yourself in the era, I wonder if, outside of demonstrations, most people were used to hearing mostly lesser-quality recordings. Some of the BA dubbings are tolerable or even good while others are just awful, and almost all have the loud swish/rumble of the source in the first few and last grooves. It would be great if someone ever found a "complaint letter" from a consumer or period article on this subject. Did the majority of people with Operas or 1Bs not realize/care that the dubbings were substandard, or was it grudging acceptance (I spent all this money for this machine, so I guess I'm stuck with the recordings available)?

I have had the same thought, because some of them sound pretty crummy indeed! Even the first ones where they were the most exacting in the processing have lost the crispness that is the trademark of the wonderful Blue Amerberol sound at it's best. The British Edison public seem to have been the only one to clue into the fact that something had gone off with the Blue Amberols.They were the ones who coined the term " damnberols" after all. The pages of the Edison Phonograph Monthly from 1915 say nothing about dubbing . They in fact report how the dealers are praising the sound of the latest ...and dubbed...issues! I suspect this was a smoke and mirrors move on the part of the publicity department, because I can't believe that the jobbers at least were not in on the fact that the new releases were dubs.
There's another thing too: the Pathé discs were dubbed from the master cylinders and if you ask me they were more successful ...as dubs... than the Blue Amberols which were dubbed from the discs. I can't understand why Edison didn't use a pantographic process instead of merely playing a diamond disc into the cylinder recording horn.

Jim

Lenoirstreetguy wrote: There's another thing too: the Pathé discs were dubbed from the master cylinders and if you ask me they were more successful ...as dubs... than the Blue Amberols which were dubbed from the discs. I can't understand why Edison didn't use a pantographic process instead of merely playing a diamond disc into the cylinder recording horn.

Jim

I agree with your points above. The dubbed Pathé discs I have sound pretty good, even though several are a bit worn. They have some of the muted quality you expect from dubs but they are very loud.

Playing a diamond disc into a cylinder horn has to be an incredibly inefficient way to do it. i really wonder, especially toward the end, in the electrical era why they could not simultaneously record a cylinder master?? I suppose the demand was so low by that time they did not want to invest even a penny?