The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all again,

Still a semi noob, always learning. I have a couple of rare recordings that I can't bring myself to use a steel needle on. I've been told that cactus needles, bamboo, fiber are gentler than steel, even though that fresh needle has graphite (?) on the end. I've been using this pink cactus needle over and over on a rare one, and turn it a quarter turn after each play, and to me is sounds just fine. Are they tipped with anything, anything that wears off? Does it create more friction or heat after several plays?

Which should I be using? I have fiber/bamboo as well with a cutter, but haven't tried them yet nor the cutter. Which needle is the gentlest, and is there any special protocol to using them like there is with steel needles (use once then pitch the steel ones)? Should each record be absolutely clean, or can the needle dragging over grime/dust hurt the recording?

Thank you everyone for the help!

Jason

Thank

Some bamboo fibre needles back in the day were treated or impregnated with various substances to make them harder.

BCN thorn needles are hardened by a gentle thermal process then by steeping in a solvent, but aren't impregnated with anything as such - the hard material is really just plant lignin.

I think thorns and bamboo fibres are about as gentle as each other. They will sometimes last a number of sides before sharpening (and with thorns, you can turn them as you say) but it depends on lots of factors, most importantly the wear on the record and the condition of the soundbox. There's lots of information on my website about all this.

Personally I give thorn needles a quick light sharpen every time. With a good sharpener I can get over 100 sharpenings before the needle is too short.

Dirt can't be a good thing (except that it can maybe fill in and smooth out groove damage/wear microscopically, to some extent!) so I never play them dirty. I immediately wash almost all records I buy.

Orchorsol wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:51 am Some bamboo fibre needles back in the day were treated or impregnated with various substances to make them harder.

BCN thorn needles are hardened by a gentle thermal process then by steeping in a solvent, but aren't impregnated with anything as such - the hard material is really just plant lignin.

I think thorns and bamboo fibres are about as gentle as each other. They will sometimes last a number of sides before sharpening (and with thorns, you can turn them as you say) but it depends on lots of factors, most importantly the wear on the record and the condition of the soundbox. There's lots of information on my website about all this.

Personally I give thorn needles a quick light sharpen every time. With a good sharpener I can get over 100 sharpenings before the needle is too short.

Dirt can't be a good thing (except that it can maybe fill in and smooth out groove damage/wear microscopically, to some extent!) so I never play them dirty. I immediately wash almost all records I buy.

I normally use water and some dish soap, but for my rare (or my most prized ones) ones, I used a damp microfiber cloth with a drop of dish soap, then another damp cloth to wipe it off. I hope I'm doing them right. The last thing I want to do is damage them.

Since you say you already own a bamboo cutter, you might want to travel that road and see if you like it. All these types of needles wear out very quickly and need to be resharpened very frequently (I do it at every play, just as Orchorsol said).

Cactus needles today are to be considered an oddity: most cacti are protected and shaving their needles is strictly prohibited. However, the growth of cacti is so slow that in any case the gramophone needles' industry would have been not sustainable on the mid/long run. So: not a viable alternative today.

Personally, as I could never find a steady and realiable provider of bamboo needles, I decided to go with thorns, as Orchorsol has taken up the whole business and machinery at a point in time and can provide them by the billions. He is also very knowledgeable and helpful, and as a side note he also sells a dry lubricant named "ibota wax" which at first I thought was just for perfectionists, but found out later to be extremely useful, to the point that today I consider it a necessary complement to the playing technique with thorn needles.

I found Fiber Bamboo Needles handmade of rare susudake on ebay and found them to be outstanding. https://www.ebay.com/itm/255366464468?h ... SwHQ9WV0hS

Orchorsol wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:51 am Some bamboo fibre needles back in the day were treated or impregnated with various substances to make them harder.

BCN thorn needles are hardened by a gentle thermal process then by steeping in a solvent, but aren't impregnated with anything as such - the hard material is really just plant lignin.

I think thorns and bamboo fibres are about as gentle as each other. They will sometimes last a number of sides before sharpening (and with thorns, you can turn them as you say) but it depends on lots of factors, most importantly the wear on the record and the condition of the soundbox. There's lots of information on my website about all this.

Personally I give thorn needles a quick light sharpen every time. With a good sharpener I can get over 100 sharpenings before the needle is too short.

Dirt can't be a good thing (except that it can maybe fill in and smooth out groove damage/wear microscopically, to some extent!) so I never play them dirty. I immediately wash almost all records I buy.

Thanks for the info!

Thank you everyone!