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Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:41 am
by Menophanes
Last Sunday, to mark the season, I played through the whole of the 1941 set of Bach's St. Matthew Passion recorded in Leipzig in 1941 with Gunther Ramin conducting (H.M.V. DB6516–6531). I used my H.M.V. 130 table machine, which registered its protest at this unusual workload by putting the auto-brake out of action, so that I had to keep an old toothbrush handy to wedge the turntable at the end of each side. I have had this set for about forty years but can only remember playing it right through once before. It is a very deeply-felt performance, with the veteran tenor Karl Erb as the Evangelist, a part in which he had specialised for thirty years or more; Gerhard Hüsch is Christ and Tiana Lemnitz is the soprano soloist – some of you may know these two from Sir Thomas Beecham's 1937 Magic Flute. The work is severely cut, with fourteen numbers out of 78 omitted and some others shorn of repeats and orchestral passages, and I know that some modern critics find Ramin's tempi intolerably slow at times; but to me the sheer beauty of the singing, the dignity and sincerity of the interpretation and the finely-shaped phrasing and dynamics outweigh all the disadvantages, including the need to change the side thirty times and to give the crank more than six hundred turns.
Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines?
Oliver Mundy.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm
by epigramophone
Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion I would buy this CD :
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:21 pm
by gramophone-georg
All the time.
I will do it even more if I ever get the time to go through my Capehart flipover changer, but the Cape is not acoustic. My acoustic machines of choice for this are the HMV no 32, or my Victrola 10-50 or 10-35 changers with orthophonic sound boxes/ horns.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:43 pm
by BassetHoundTrio
As I only have acoustic machines, the answer is a resounding yes! But I don't have any sets nearly that mammoth (envious, I am) but I recently enjoyed the entire set of Verdi Requiem on 78s.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:49 pm
by gramophone-georg
epigramophone wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm
Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion
I would buy this CD :
INFIDEL!!
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:14 pm
by Roaring20s
Menophanes wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:41 am
Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines? - Oliver Mundy.
Yes!
However, classical sets are kept to this bare minimum ...
Host's "The Planets"
Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons"
Beethoven's "Symphony No. 5"
Mozart's "Concerto No. 18"
James.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:08 am
by BillH_NJ
Menophanes wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:41 am
Last Sunday, to mark the season, I played through the whole of the 1941 set of Bach's
St. Matthew Passion recorded in Leipzig in 1941 with Gunther Ramin conducting (H.M.V. DB6516–6531). I used my H.M.V. 130 table machine, which registered its protest at this unusual workload by putting the auto-brake out of action, so that I had to keep an old toothbrush handy to wedge the turntable at the end of each side. I have had this set for about forty years but can only remember playing it right through once before. It is a very deeply-felt performance, with the veteran tenor Karl Erb as the Evangelist, a part in which he had specialised for thirty years or more; Gerhard Hüsch is Christ and Tiana Lemnitz is the soprano soloist – some of you may know these two from Sir Thomas Beecham's 1937
Magic Flute. The work is severely cut, with fourteen numbers out of 78 omitted and some others shorn of repeats and orchestral passages, and I know that some modern critics find Ramin's tempi intolerably slow at times; but to me the sheer beauty of the singing, the dignity and sincerity of the interpretation and the finely-shaped phrasing and dynamics outweigh all the disadvantages, including the need to change the side thirty times and to give the crank more than six hundred turns.
Does anyone else, I wonder, ever play multiple-disc classical sets on acoustic machines?
Oliver Mundy.
Definitely. Mostly operas and G&S, but some symphonic or solo instrumental works or song cycles.
Bill
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:23 am
by epigramophone
gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:49 pm
epigramophone wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm
Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion
I would buy this CD :
INFIDEL!!
The composers of works such as the St.Matthew Passion intended them to be heard uninterrupted. I have been collecting machines and records for over 60 years, but I am not blind to the merits of the CD.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:29 am
by drh
epigramophone wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:23 am
gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:49 pm
epigramophone wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:57 pm
Never, not even on my electrically motored Expert Minor. I got rid of my multiple 78rpm disc sets long ago.
If I wanted to hear Karl Erb in the St. Matthew Passion
I would buy this CD :
INFIDEL!!
The composers of works such as the St.Matthew Passion intended them to be heard uninterrupted. I have been collecting machines and records for over 60 years, but I am not blind to the merits of the CD.
I suppose it's a matter of whose perspective you're trying to recreate--the composer's of 250-odd years ago (or whatever), or the record listener's of 75-100 years ago? If you want to recreate the latter, then playing with breaks is the way to go, unless, of course, you delve into Edison long plays or Victor program transcriptions. For me, I did play classical sets (of which I have many) on acoustic machines with breaks years ago, but more recently I've gone exclusively to playing them on a relatively modern turntable with custom-sized styli, copying to the computer as I go, then editing out the breaks to make a continuous performance and saving the resultant file. Then, barring special circumstances, that's how I play the music going forward. These days, although I enjoy giving others the occasional "old time" spin, the only records I consistently play on acoustic machines are my vertical cuts, the Pathés (and their imitators) and Edisons.
If I were starting over, I'd probably look at CD transfers or streaming. When I started out, however, commercial transfers were consistently dreadful, and so a bias toward owning the originals was born. Too late now to take a different road.
Re: Bach's 'St. Matthew Passion' on 78s
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:02 am
by Marco Gilardetti
I also find amusing to play entire sets when I can. At this point in time, I perceive going through an entire long musical piece without incidents, mistakes or interruptions, quite like an art performance.