The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Somebody got crazy with the sandpaper again. Heinous.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/atq/2133908763.html

Sigh...this looks like the kind of hatchet job I would have done when I was a teenager. Mea Culpa!

That's a shame. A nice early Victrola XI with a rare finish ruined. I wonder if it can be saved?
Harvey Kravitz

It actually shouldn't be too hard to restore a fumed oak finish, if you have the workspace, and preferably, a container that will house the Victrola while you're fuming it. (I'd think a large cardboard box lined with plastic should work.)

This site provides pretty straightforward instructions:

http://www.codesmiths.com/shed/workshop ... oakfuming/

Probably, the hardest part will be stripping off whatever new finish was applied prior to fuming the cabinet.

Here is a good one. Original finish not hardly worn at all. Note natural wear to upper corners where people would put their hands. Hand-written note stuck inside says "Weathered Oak" finish. Point is the VV-XI under discussion may not have a "fumed" oak finish at all. Once I got a real black VV-IX cheap because it was missing its motorboard. So I sanded down a replacement motorboard and fumed it in swimming pool strength ammonia, as strong as you can get without a license. But no effect. So I stained it with ebony and it matched perfectly. Another time I used "Black Walnut" Danish oil to replicate this "weathered oak" finish.

It would be real easy to restore the finish on the VV-XI under discussion. Problem is the seller's joke price. And when restored it would not be worth as much as an original, which would be $200.

Ortho_Fan wrote:It actually shouldn't be too hard to restore a fumed oak finish, if you have the workspace, and preferably, a container that will house the Victrola while you're fuming it. (I'd think a large cardboard box lined with plastic should work.)

This site provides pretty straightforward instructions:

http://www.codesmiths.com/shed/workshop ... oakfuming/

Probably, the hardest part will be stripping off whatever new finish was applied prior to fuming the cabinet.

OF, I am not sure that would work. I have built and fumed a fair amount of furniture. Oak is porous and the effects of the fuming penetrates quite deep (several mm). Sanding the surface would not remove the effects. I believe the real dark color was achieved with the type of shellac used.

Brad wrote:OF, I am not sure that would work. I have built and fumed a fair amount of furniture. Oak is porous and the effects of the fuming penetrates quite deep (several mm). Sanding the surface would not remove the effects. I believe the real dark color was achieved with the type of shellac used.

Hi Brad:

I wondered about that too, after I posted the information about fuming an oak cabinet.

According to the information on Paul Edie's site, a top coat was normally not applied to fumed oak.


"Fumed Oak was produced by a process wherein the wood was placed in a tank of ammonia fumes for a period of time. This darkened the wood significantly, and brought out the grain texture in a way that increase the contasts. Colors can vary, but tend to be dominant in browns and tans rather than yellow or gold. There is quite a bit of dissention within the collector community in the identification of Fumed Oak, as some other finish options can produce a similar result. Note that the surface is not glossy; fumed oak finishes were usually waxed and not varnished. Fumed oak is sometimes called "pickled oak". The surface is slightly rough to the touch, but not "craggy"."
From -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/oak.htm


As you note, fuming penetrates the surface, so that adds credence to the theory that the Victrola in question--since the outside was stripped--was not fumed oak but another type dark oak finish.

Based on what the photos show, there is a definite shine to the wood. This could have been achieved by a high gloss paste wax, but I think, more likely, it might be shellac or varnish.

I would agree that Victor used some sort of colored stain/shellac/varnish to achieve the dark color.

The color that fuming produces is highly dependent on the tannin content of the wood. The picture below are of two pieces I made at different times. These were made with wood from different trees. I always try and insure that I use wood from the same tree on a piece to keep the color and tone consistent within the piece. Both pieces below were fumed for ~36 hours and are finished with orange shellac. As you can see, the color varies and neither are as dark.