The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have seen several posts on the forum saying that an Edison sapphire stylus will wear rather quickly if used with celluloid cylinders compared with 2 minute and 4 minute wax records. I assume this would apply not just to Blue Amberols, but also to Lamberts, Insestructibles and US Everlasting cylinders.

Columbia lyric reprodcuers using a tension spring were first used in 1906 on 2-minute wax cylinders. When 4-minute wax cylinders appeared, a 4-minute stylus was made available to play these records. Soon thereafter, Columbia advertised a 2 and 4 minute conversion to add to many models of the Columbia B series, such as the BC, BM, BK, BE, BF, BG, and tonearm counterparts. The user was able to change the machine from 2 minute to 4-minute gearing without changing the reproducer. All of these lyric reproducers used a sapphire stylus.

In 1908, when Columbia began selling Indestructible records, they marketed the Lyric reproducers to play these celluloid records. Columbia even made an extra-tension Lyric reproducer to increase the volume of the Indestructible cylinders, but again , the stylus was a sapphire. This all leads to my question(s.)

If Columbia never made a diamond stylus for their reproducers, and marketed their sapphire reproducers to play celluloid cylinders, one would also expect rapid wear to these sapphires. I have never heard anyone mentioning wear to a sapphire stylus when playing either 2 minute or 4 minute celluloid cylinders on a Columbia Graphophone. Do these Columbia sapphire styli not exhibit this type of wear when using celluloid cylinders or were they treated in some way to be able to safely play celluloid records?

Thank you.

Scott

They do wear, but not enough to make much difference if you keep playing celluloid.
It usually on becomes noticeable later when you play wax cylinders, when the stylus starts to cut the wax which then collects on the stylus causing it to jump a groove.
I guess it wasn't seen as such a problem then because they stopped making 2M wax cylinders, which would have been thought of as an inferior product when problems occured, and it would have encouraged people to buy celluloid.
New styli would have been cheap and easily replaced as well back then.
By the time Edison solved the problem of stylus wear with his diamond conical needle, Columbia had long stopped making phonographs and cylinders.
But for those who think it's nonsense about sapphires wearing on celluloid, you should just try it for yourselves.

Thank you Gramophoneshane

I appreciate your information. I wonder if what you say below is a main reason why some wax records are worn out. I know records do wear out over time, but there are many that blast and sound muffled, even with a good reproducer.

It makes sense if you use a sapphire reproducer on celluloid, then continue to use it on celluloid and not go back and forth between wax and celluloid records.