The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have an original leather horn in very good shape. I'm concerned that it might deteriorate. I have seen many old leather objects just dry out, becom frayed, and turned to dust. Or become hardened and inflexible over time. I know there are articles on the Internet for leather preservation, but I wouldn't mind hearing from Forum members, their suggestions, and experiences.

John

No one else has asked, so I will --- what's a leather horn, and what machine(s) does it go with? Can we see some pics please? I believe this is a new one for me...

One thing to watch for on old leather objects is red rot. This condition in leather looks like fungus but is really from the reaction of coal-dust. Here is an excellent scientific magazine--

https://www.leathermag.com/news/newsres ... n-leather/

This isn't a how-to, it's a good look at what's happening.

So for a practical solution-based way to fight deterioration in your leather phonograph horn, try seeing what bookbinders have done, particularly those who rebind old family Bibles. Victorian households had a lot of heavy leather-bound bibles in them which are usually impressive specimens of bookbinding, but also, due to their rather imposing bulk, are prone to deteriorating under their own weight. I have an 1882 printing of the Douay-Rheims bible with notes by a Fr. Haydock that is a typical example of the era (if slightly bulkier due to the inclusion of commentary and the apocrypha--it's a Catholic bible.)

Another good place to look is at your local tack shop, around anyone who's trying to preserve horse tack and harnesses. There are usually some great leather products available there; I would start with something like Fiebing's saddle soap--it's not very expensive, it's used on pretty much everything, and if it won't hurt a good-quality saddle it probably shouldn't damage your phonograph horn.

Charles F.

VanEpsFan1914 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:27 pm One thing to watch for on old leather objects is red rot. This condition in leather looks like fungus but is really from the reaction of coal-dust. Here is an excellent scientific magazine--

https://www.leathermag.com/news/newsres ... n-leather/

This isn't a how-to, it's a good look at what's happening.

So for a practical solution-based way to fight deterioration in your leather phonograph horn, try seeing what bookbinders have done, particularly those who rebind old family Bibles. Victorian households had a lot of heavy leather-bound bibles in them which are usually impressive specimens of bookbinding, but also, due to their rather imposing bulk, are prone to deteriorating under their own weight. I have an 1882 printing of the Douay-Rheims bible with notes by a Fr. Haydock that is a typical example of the era (if slightly bulkier due to the inclusion of commentary and the apocrypha--it's a Catholic bible.)

Another good place to look is at your local tack shop, around anyone who's trying to preserve horse tack and harnesses. There are usually some great leather products available there; I would start with something like Fiebing's saddle soap--it's not very expensive, it's used on pretty much everything, and if it won't hurt a good-quality saddle it probably shouldn't damage your phonograph horn.

Charles F.

Red rot is usually a trouble with, well, red leather. It's mostly found in earlier books and by the time whatever horn it is would have been made, it wasnt as common.

I think the first thing that needs to be determined is what type of leather horn you have. How is it constructed and what's the condition or damage?
Pictures would no doubt be extremely helpful here.

Is it like a 17th century beer tankard made of thick heavy leather that's self supporting and is there any stitching present?
Is it more like an umbrella or folding fabric horn that uses framework to support a thin leather skin, or is it basically a sheet metal horn with a fine quality leather glued to the surface so it's purely cosmetic and never under stress to retain its shape or resist damage?
I think all these horn types would require different techniques and possibly different products to safely clean and preserve them, just as you would an antique saddle or a leather bound book.

I'd be extremely cautious about using saddle soap, or any other cleaning or restoration product for that matter.
Anything that can potentially penetrate or soak into leather, like saddle soap, can alter the natural pH levels of the leather, and result in irreversible long term damage to the structure of the leather itself making it harden or split, or cause light surface scuffs to look more like suede.
You may be far better off with a good quality shoe wax that basically sits on the surface of the leather without actually penetrating it.
If you need to first clean any heavy dirt or perhaps even out the colour, I'd use spirit based (alcohol) cleaners or dyes, as they'd have less chance of altering the pH significantly and evaporate much quicker than water and mineral based products.
Then again, if it's survived 100+ yrs in pretty good condition already with probably very little cleaning or preservation, perhaps doing nothing at all apart from avoiding moisture and strong UV light is the best path to follow?

It may well be worth contacting a couple major museums like the Smithsonian, and provide them plenty of photos and see what they'd recommend you do to ensure its long term survival?

Good Lord! I wrote "leather horn: and I should have written "leather elbow." My apologies to everyone. I hope my question makes more sense now. I will post pictures tomorrow. I have had it for a few years; it came with a Columbia front-mount machine. What prompted my question is my concern that it deteriorates while in my possession. Again my apologies with my imprecise question. My question is real; my formulation poor.

John

gunnarthefeisty wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:13 pm

Red rot is usually a trouble with, well, red leather. It's mostly found in earlier books and by the time whatever horn it is would have been made, it wasnt as common.
[/quote]

I collect books. The rot itself is a reddish color and you see it a lot on dark brown stuff too.

Here are some pictures. How best to preserve this leather elbow? It came on a Columbia front-mount. I have a brass elbow on that machine. I just want to keep this to the side and not have it deteriorate.

John

Leather lotion should do the trick and keep it supple.

Any particular brand you might recommend?