The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The pre-sale estimate may look attractive, but the additional costs would be considerable for me.
As well as the 31.2% Buyer's Premium there is van hire, in my case for a round trip of almost 600 miles. At my age that would also involve overnight accommodation. The other option would be to entrust it to a courier, which could be risky.
This auctioneer does not show current bids, so where might it end up?

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... ab09836601

Wow, this is a beautiful one. The starting or estimated ending price is ridiculously low. Thank you for posting.

Hideki

If this was a Victor machine it'd be 30,000 USD at least. There isn't a Victor equivalent in terms of size, quality and rarity. I mean there can only be a few hundred of these made originally.

In the US any auctioneers would have a slight handle on the value too. Not here. An immaculate 202 is poorly displayed with a joke of a pre-sale estimate. It's not there to entice potential bidders into the running either. Despite a well catalogued history of record breaking prices achieved at auction for the 202 (even a lone example in a cattle auction!), these auctioneers appear to be reliably clueless.

Against all judgment I will probably bid. I have been wanting one of these for ten years.

Garret

It looks as though it's all correct but beware, I bought one of these at an auction house years ago and later discovered to my horror (after the specified returns period) that the smaller horn from a 193 had been fitted inside it
They say in the antiques trade that you sometimes pay for knowledge - that was a very expensive lesson. I sold it as parts at an extreme loss.

I would never buy such a machine unseen, and there would be little point in requesting a condition report.
The pre-sale estimate alone is enough to tell you that the auctioneers have no idea about what they are selling.

I had visited and seen the one that caused me problems, but didn't have the knowledge at the time to feel through the grille fabric that the middle ridge of the re-entrant horn was at the correct height.

This one "looks" right to me as the centre of the fold appears to be in line with where you'd expect it to be.

With that said, it must be incredibly rare to find one of these with the wrong horn inside it, let alone a 193/4 horn in its place, itself not exactly a common horn! I guess the oddity will turn up where a collector naively bought an empty cabinet hoping to complete the machine with a horn one day, without realising the horns are not exactly common! I am aware of one collector who attempted to complete a 194 he purchased 33 years ago but alas he died in 2014 with the cabinet still empty!

Sorry to hear about your problem, Orchorsol, but somewhat mercifully I honestly do think that must have been a very rare occurrence.

Sold at 4400 GBP plus premium.

Garret wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:07 am Sold at 4400 GBP plus premium.

Eventually the auctioneers realised that the machine was a 202 and increased the pre-sale estimate to £2000/£3000.
Either they did some research to earn their fat fee or someone tipped them off. I suspect the latter.