The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Okay, I know a bit about phonographs (gramophones) which play disc records.

I know nothing about cylinder playing phonographs.

Hence my inane question.

The record playing phonograph normally uses a metal needle in the reproducer (soundbox) to play the '78 records'..

Do Edison cylinder playing phonographs use the same type of metal needle in their reproducers to play the cylinder ? Or it it a small gemstone of some type ? Or something else ?

No metal needles. The machines that play wax cylinders generally have sapphire styli. For Edison's celluloid Blue Amberol cylinders, the dedicated reproducers had diamonds.

Note that Edison and Pathé discs also played with jewel styli, diamond and sapphire respectively. Playing either type with a steel needle will ruin it.

Thank you.

Also, re: phonographs in general: (not only but including Edison makes) :

Do phonograph reproducers fit any make of phonograph and can be swopped around easily ?

Do all phonograph cylinders spin around at the same speed and fit all phonograph 'drums' ?

Thank you agan

poodling around wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:54 pm Do phonograph reproducers fit any make of phonograph and can be swopped around easily ?

No. Although on something like a Victor phonograph, you might be able to interchange like a Victor Exhibition and Victor No. 2 reproducer.

poodling around wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:54 pm
Do all phonograph cylinders spin around at the same speed and fit all phonograph 'drums'?

Cylinders tend fall in the speed range of 120-160 rpm. The 5" length 1.98" diameter cylinder is the most common by far, but there are other variants, like "Concert" cylinders that may be 5" diameter. Cylinder phonos have a "mandrel", what you referring to as a "drum".

Wolfe wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:24 pm

poodling around wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:54 pm Do phonograph reproducers fit any make of phonograph and can be swopped around easily ?

No. Although on something like a Victor phonograph, you might be able to interchange like a Victor Exhibition and Victor No. 2 reproducer.

poodling around wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:54 pm
Do all phonograph cylinders spin around at the same speed and fit all phonograph 'drums'?

Cylinders tend fall in the speed range of 120-160 rpm. The 5" length 1.98" diameter cylinder is the most common by far, but there are other variants, like "Concert" cylinders that may be 5" diameter. Cylinder phonos have a "mandrel", what you referring to as a "drum".

So, with floating reproducers. (Not Edison's) - can they be generally used on different makes of phonographs - maybe using an adaptor ?

These floating reproducers kind of look similar ?

poodling around wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:02 am So, with floating reproducers. (Not Edison's) - can they be generally used on different makes of phonographs - maybe using an adaptor ?

These floating reproducers kind of look similar ?

I have a recorder made by the German firm EWC (Excelsiorwerke Cöln) which is entirely compatible with a Columbia Q. I presume their reproducers would work equally well on Columbia machines of the pre-Lyric period.

Many Pathé cylinder machines were closely based on the smaller Columbia models and their recorders and reproducers might also be interchangeable with Columbia components, but here I cannot speak from experience.

Oliver Mundy.

Menophanes wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:35 pm

poodling around wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:02 am So, with floating reproducers. (Not Edison's) - can they be generally used on different makes of phonographs - maybe using an adaptor ?

These floating reproducers kind of look similar ?

I have a recorder made by the German firm EWC (Excelsiorwerke Cöln) which is entirely compatible with a Columbia Q. I presume their reproducers would work equally well on Columbia machines of the pre-Lyric period.

Many Pathé cylinder machines were closely based on the smaller Columbia models and their recorders and reproducers might also be interchangeable with Columbia components, but here I cannot speak from experience.

Oliver Mundy.

Very helpful indeed.

Thank you very much.

The 5" length 1.98" diameter cylinder is the most common by far,

May I assume that the slip of the pen, or keyboard, would prefer to say (write) "approx 4" long?

It was Edison (with some input from Gilliland and Aylsworth) who established the basic dimensions of solid wax cylinders, back in 1887-1888.
American Graphophone preferred their own (patented) thin ozocerite wax coating on cardboard (mostly 6" length) for many years, finally yielding to the Edison size in 1893.

The inner "taper" of the cylinder (matching the mandrel support) was also invented by TAE and was a patented feature into 1905.

Allen