The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all!
I’m looking at my Victor II today…and something looked off…to me anyway..
The rear bracket guide ring that sits inside the bracket for the tone arm and horn support …is it sitting too low inside the bracket? Should it be exposed like that on the bottom?
Should this be adjusted UP and if so..how…? Thank you for any other examples to compare or advice. Mike

Sorry for the sideways photos, they should adjust themselves when clicked.

It does seem a little low. Normally, only the radiused portion of the sleeve is exposed. How well does the bottom flange on the horn elbow fit? The thin section of the horn elbow flange should sit just a bit below the top surface of the back bracket. Only enough to allow the horn elbow to rotate under the clip. If there's any excess gap there, then the sleeve has indeed been pushed down too low.

It does sit low, I had to add a 1.5” x ⅛” black washer to sit on top the ring to boost it up.
This is a photo of the horn elbow sitting WITH the washer. Without it, it sits lower of course.
Is this the proper height where it is with the washer?
How do I move the ring up if I wanted too…?

Yours is lower than mine. It looks like your elbow tips down a bit in the front too, which would also indicate that the sleeve is a little deep. It may have left the factory that way. The back bracket is cast, so unless it causes a problem, I don’t advise messing with it, (I think that you would hate to crack the casting).

My “guess” is that the ring is an interference fit, so it may be possible to push it further in. If you do try that, clean the inside first so that you are not scraping on corrosion. Use pressure, (not impact). For reference, the top of my sleeve is .100”, (just over 3/32”) below the top of the back bracket.

Flying Dutchman wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:52 am
How do I move the ring up if I wanted too…?

Get 2 large washers. Large enough so that they'll each lay over the tone arm hole and not fall inside of it. You might need a stack of washers, of increasingly larger diameters. Put a bolt & nut through the washers. Tighten the nut. This will slowly draw the sleeve back up into the back bracket. Be careful not to go too far! Move it little-by-little, testing it as you go. Use 2 wrenches as you tighten. A wrench on the bolt, and a wrench on the nut will take the tightening torque off of the bracket, which you would rather not break .

JerryVan wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:42 pm

Flying Dutchman wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:52 am
How do I move the ring up if I wanted too…?

Get 2 large washers. Large enough so that they'll each lay over the tone arm hole and not fall inside of it. You might need a stack of washers, of increasingly larger diameters. Put a bolt & nut through the washers. Tighten the nut. This will slowly draw the sleeve back up into the back bracket. Be careful not to go too far! Move it little-by-little, testing it as you go. Use 2 wrenches as you tighten. A wrench on the bolt, and a wrench on the nut will take the tightening torque off of the bracket, which you would rather not break .

Jerry’s method should work very well. You might consider adding a third, smaller washer to act as a stop, (between the upper washer and the ring). Good luck.

Django wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:29 pm

JerryVan wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:42 pm

Flying Dutchman wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:52 am
How do I move the ring up if I wanted too…?

Get 2 large washers. Large enough so that they'll each lay over the tone arm hole and not fall inside of it. You might need a stack of washers, of increasingly larger diameters. Put a bolt & nut through the washers. Tighten the nut. This will slowly draw the sleeve back up into the back bracket. Be careful not to go too far! Move it little-by-little, testing it as you go. Use 2 wrenches as you tighten. A wrench on the bolt, and a wrench on the nut will take the tightening torque off of the bracket, which you would rather not break .

Jerry’s method should work very well. You might consider adding a third, smaller washer to act as a stop, (between the upper washer and the ring). Good luck.

Excellent suggestion!

Thank you all for your help.
I really don’t want to break or snap the cast iron there…should I mess with it or not…
Maybe some penetrating oil too would help the process…

Nothing got broke when the ring was pushed down. I doubt it was done as carefully as you'll do it to push it back. By my method, you should be putting no extraneous force on the bracket. Your call however. don't do it if you're not comfortable with it.

Is the elbow sloppy in the back bracket? Does the tonearm pivot easily side to side? If the clip and screw hold the elbow solidly and the tone arm moves freely I'd leave it as is.

Jerry B.