The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Has anyone ever undertaken a study of the distribution of Grey Gull’s various labels? My curiosity was initially aroused while pondering over the rarity of the Sunrise label as opposed to the more frequently encountered Van Dyke 78s. Why do we so seldom run across the Sunrise label? Its existence was brief, but so was Van Dyke’s. We know that Madison, a Grey Gull product until its last year or so, was sold by Woolworth’s, but the other Grey Gull labels do not appear to have been specific client entities. This, then, raises the question: why did Grey Gull release everything on Radiex, Van Dyke, and perhaps Sunrise, as well as Grey Gull itself?

Could Sunrise, with its eye-catching label, have been created in order to increase the profit margin by being marketed as a slightly higher-priced alternative to the other Grey Gull product? I can only find two newspaper advertisements for Sunrise, one of which was placed by Duckwall’s (a 5 and 10-cent chain in the Midwestern U.S.), and reading: “SUNRISE RECORDS – All the latest popular songs – 35 cents each, or 3 for $1.00.” The ad is dated April 24, 1930. At that time, Grey Gull and Radiex were retailing for between 9 cents and 15 cents apiece in some locations. Another interesting advertisement, from YEO Cut-Rate Variety Store in Ellsworth, Kansas (dated March 10, 1930), lists “SUNSHINE (sic) RECORDS, choice of all latest pieces, 35 cents….GREY GULL RECORDS, choice of all latest pieces, 25 cents.”

Was Van Dyke initially intended for catalog sales? Were Grey Gull and Radiex intended to be sold by rival retailers? One does not find them advertised together. A store in Winnipeg advertised, on August 29, 1930, Radiex records at 3 for 89 cents, and that ad lists specific song titles, a combination of current pop hits and old, traditional favorites.

As my friends know only too well, the number one item on my want-list for many years, and which I have given up hope of ever finding, is Grey Gull/Radiex 2527 – Van Dyke 82527. I have never seen a copy, nor do I know anyone who has. If it was issued on Sunrise, I do not know the catalog number. Piccadilly and Goodson did not issue it, but Bellbird in Australia did (Bellbird 132). If the frequency with which Grey Gulls turn up at record shows and on auction lists accurately reflects original sales figures, the 2000 vocal series sold fewer copies than the 1500-1800 dance band series or the 4000 old standards group. Then, too, being a late Grey Gull release, it would not have been re-pressed and distributed for a longer period of time.

The Grey Gull labels, being a ten-cent store product (and often retailing for ten cents), probably appealed to a clientele unlikely to preserve and archive inexpensive ephemera. Many contemporary 78 rpm devotees have limited interest in them. There are on-line Grey Gull numericals, not updated in a good many years (despite contributions from readers). I’ve not seen a separate Van Dyke numerical, and I know that nothing exists for Sunrise. Is anyone researching the Grey Gull labels and has anyone ever developed a theory regarding their original distribution? Many thanks.

Cordially,
Jonathan

Poor Steven C Barr was largely interested in these records, and used to have a large collection of them. What has been of the collection when he moved to a nursing home nobody knows, yet I don't know if he's still among us... It would be interesting to revisit his Almost Complete Guide to see what he says about Grey Gull history. And his many posts on 78-L earlier years discussing these records. Klickitat keeps in txt files (weekly digest form) all posts since the move from Cornell University, in September 2008, here:
http://klickitat.78online.com/pipermail/78-l/
and they are downloadable. Very useful as these are txt searchable files. Don't know if anyone has the former files from Cornell servers, maybe Ron Fial, the list master, keeps track of the old posts. I joined the list in 1997, and there was a lot of information and discussions about Grey Gull....

I find these labels really fascinating, especially for their hot dance and jazz output which often seems to have a certain extra flavour, zest and freedom to the playing. The brash and slightly over-recorded sound quality on the electrical recordings almost seems to add to the fun sometimes.

I'd love to know more too, their story and how issues on the various labels interrelated are complete mysteries to me!

In America, Grey Gull is fascinating. Many of the GG recordings had the collaboration of prolific men as Andy Sannella (sax, clarinet, guitar), Arthur Fields (vocals, sometimes credited, many times as Mr. X [sic] or other names) and many other people. I advice to read the things that Brian Rust wrote about GG, mainly the general personnel recording on that label, to be found in his dance band and jazz discographies.
In Europe, for me, the equivalent exciting fascination goes for the incredibly prolific Odeon label, well, all them in the Lindstrom roster as Beka, etc etc., Odeon being the Queen of them all.

As the years move by us, so many of the friends with whom we once discussed these interesting subjects have left us. I have a number of articles from Record Research concerning the various Grey Gull labels, plus entries in several good books about vintage records. It would be nice to find an active on-line site for collaboration on Grey Gull research. The fine site which pooled a lot of Grey Gull research for several years, and to which I contributed a little bit, developed some technical glitches and I have not been able to find it in recent times.

I completely agree about the delightful, uninhibited musicianship on the Grey Gull dance band recordings. All the musicians seemed to be enjoying themselves, performing so creatively and making those songs sparkle. Being accustomed to performing together, one suspects that they did not require much rehearsal before recording a Grey Gull session. Being a Frank Luther enthusiast, I am particularly fond of his vocal choruses for Grey Gull, and - since they were uncredited - I suspect there are more which I have yet to hear. He and the Grey Gull studio band outdo themselves on "What Is This Thing Called Love," "With You," "Under a Texas Moon" "Harmonica Harry," and others. The number one item on my want-list is Frank's vocal solo of "Cryin' for the Carolines," (Grey Gull 2527), on which the band swings out with incredible inventiveness.

At record shows over the years, I usually picked up any Van Dyke or late Radiex or Grey Gull 78 I came across, so I have a stack of them. Not so with Sunrise, which is seldom ever found. It would be interesting to know how Piccadilly, Goodson, and other UK labels determined which Grey Gull sides to release. I only have three or four Bellbirds from Australia - but not the one I so urgently want (Bellbird 132), and I find the flexible Bellbirds, when surfaces are clean, to sound considerably better than the Grey Gull/Radiex/Van Dyke pressings.

It's intriguing, too, that certain Grey Gulls turn up frequently, whereas others are almost never seen. In my quest for 2527, I have never run across anyone who has ever seen a copy, whereas other Grey Gulls - even later ones of 1930 vintage - have turned up numerous times. One would assume that Grey Gull originally pressed the same number of copies of each of those later releases, but perhaps not. An advertisement from November 14, 1930, tells us that a certain variety store was selling all Radiex records for ten cents apiece, and one wonders how complete a selection there might have been. O, for a time machine --- to go back and make a purchase!

Thank you, my friends, for your extremely interesting comments about the delightful Grey Gull recordings.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

Friends, I have just this day acquired a copy of the Winter 1930-31 Montgomery Ward catalogue - and, sure enough, there is a large advertisement for Grey Gull records, to be sold at 5 for $1.09, postage paid. The selection of Grey Gulls is extensive, and although artists are not identified, the ad does give the Grey Gull catalogue number for each record. As I have often said, I've doubted the existence of the number one item on my want-list, Grey Gull 2527, never having seen a copy and knowing of no one who has. However......that record is listed in the Montgomery Ward catalogue - thus virtually confirming its existence.

The list of available discs is extensive, though certainly not representative of the entire Grey Gull catalogue. It is interesting to note that there are three-and-a-half columns of vocal selections, one-and-a-half columns of dance selections, one record described as "blues," one-half column of Hawaiian music, one-half column of "humorous" selections, eight instrumentals, two pipe organ records, and thirteen sacred recordings.

Some of the discs listed are older Grey Gulls which had sold well and were re-pressed (and masters were re-recorded, electrically, in some instances), but there are likewise some 1930 releases, including the one I have so long sought in vain. There is no separate listing of country music titles, and a few of the records in that category which fetch the highest prices nowadays are not included in the ad.

The sale is specifically for Grey Gull records. Perhaps Radiex and Van Dyke were included in the catalogues of other mail-order retailers. Sunrise must have appeared very briefly in 1930, just shortly before Grey Gull ceased to exist, and its distribution was seemingly spotty.


It would be interesting to know how successful this advertisement was. On the following two pages, 75-cent Victor records were listed, with artists identified and with special sections set aside for such popular performers as Jimmie Rodgers. Given the state of the economy at the time, one would imagine that the sale of Grey Gulls at five for $1.09 attracted some purchasers. I wish I had been among them.


Cordially,
Jonathan

I don't suppose you could post photos of those pages?