The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Probably a dumb question, but can you play Pathé sapphire records on an Edison Diamond Disc machine?

Not as is, no. You would need a 78 adapter that also swivels to play vertical cuts and a Pathé stylus. The grooves on Pathé verticals are very wide and the Edison diamond point is far too narrow for them.

Doesn't also the whole turntable assembly move in respect to the tonearm, in synch with the specific grooves' spacing? Even in case that a compatible sapphire ball is installed, would the tonearm of an Edison Diamond Disc machine be able to track at all a record which grooves' spacing is not specifically made for the machine?

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:17 am Doesn't also the whole turntable assembly move in respect to the tonearm, in synch with the specific grooves' spacing? Even in case that a compatible sapphire ball is installed, would the tonearm of an Edison Diamond Disc machine be able to track at all a record which grooves' spacing is not specifically made for the machine?

Yes, Marco, you are correct. There is a small horizontal leeway in the Edison soundbox - the weight where the stylus is located can swivel around approx +/- 10 degrees with respect to the tangential to compensate for small misalignments in the manufacture of the discs, but the difference in groove width between Pathé and Edison records is so big that it would mistrack after some turns, even if the stylus would be of the right size. It would be similar to trying to play a 2-minute cylinder in a 4-minute machine.

Thanks, everyone.
Along similar lines, I just wanted to check to make sure that one can safely play Pathé "Needle-Cut" records on a steel needle machine like a Victrola.

MikeB wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:30 am Thanks, everyone.
Along similar lines, I just wanted to check to make sure that one can safely play Pathé "Needle-Cut" records on a steel needle machine like a Victrola.

Yes, no problem there, the needle cuts are regular lateral cut records made to be played with standard steel needles.

Also, don't forget that the early etched label Pathés are centre start, so can't be played on a DD machine.
Edge start Pathé's like the American discs can be played though with a suitable adaptor.

Pictured is a typical soundbox and adapter unit to play conventional "78's" on a Pathé machine.
Pathé themselves produced a reproducer and adapter, also pictured, to play their discs on a conventional gramophone.

Of all these, my preferred one is the American version, using a swiveling elbow at the end of the tonearm that allows to play both types of record with only a twist. Certainly the position of the reproducer to play laterals is amazing, as for having the needle vertical, the diaphragm plane must be fearfully inclined! But I've seen them play in YT videos and they sound very good!
For instance... https://youtu.be/jlLuJlKAcOU