The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I purchased this machine recently because it is so interesting. I know very little about it. It has no manufacture markings. These are my observations:

The carriage moves from the farthest away position and travels towards the turntable by means of a feed screw.

I believe the turntable turns counterclockwise. The distance from the turntable shaft to the drive shaft is quite short making a figure eight unlikely. In addition, the turntable must turn counterclockwise so the recording surface moves away from the reproducer stylus.

There are a series of shafts at the lowest portion of the carriage. These shafts lead back to the governor. As the machine plays, the governor pad gradually moves away from the governor disc resulting in the increased speed of the turntable.

The spindle has a small cap. When the cap is snug the distance between the cap and turntable suggests vertical cut records were used. The spindle is larger than a "normal" disc record but smaller than Standard disc record. Also, there is a small notch next to the turntable. I suspect the records were unique to the machine.

The machine is complete except for the reproducer and key or crank.

The framework of the machine does not appear modified in any way.

It appears to be a disc machine with linear tracking and playback at a constant velocity under the stylus.

I believe this machine was once owned by Edward Pacour (sp?) a French collector.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Jerry Blais

Haven't we been down this road already?

Haven't we been down this road already?

I've posted about this machine before but am no closer to learning anything about it. Any suggestions?

Jerry B.

Seems you have a French Ideal phonograph modified to play discs. There was a similar machine known as Ideal
Mixte that could play both cylinders and discs but it's far more complex than yours.

WOW! Where is that machine pictured?

Garret wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:32 pm WOW! Where is that machine pictured?

I’d put my money on Paris, Jalal.

The photo was taken at the "Musée de la machine parlante" in Cousolre (northern France):
https://villesetvillagesdelavesnois.org ... usolre.htm
There are several versions of this machine. These two photos show the same Ideal mixte with disk and cylinder version. See also the catalogues of the Maison de la Bonne Presse on my site:
https://www.phonorama.fr/kf34.html
https://www.phonorama.fr/kf13.html
These Ideal phonographs are derived from the machine originally built by Louis Lamazière, who presumably built the Mystery Machine. To be convinced, it is enough to compare his parts with those of Lamazière n° 2 whose photos I have already posted.
I will not be surprised if this machine comes from Edouard Pécourt. I knew him, it’s the kind of strange machine he liked to discover in the Parisian flea markets that we frequented together.
Julien.

Thanks so much for the replies. Was there ever a machine sold commercially that had a constant velocity turntable?

Thanks, Jerry B.

I only know of an attachment; The World Record Controller.

Description from the British Library:

The World Record Controller was invented by Noel Pemberton-Billing and had a brief existence from 1922 to 1925. It was an accessory for a gramophone which essentially comprised a governor, driven by a friction wheel running against the turntable rim. It was intended to provide constant linear speed by applying drag to the disc surface at the start of the record where the governor spins fastest. This was intended to provide better quality and longer playing time. Thus the record starts at about 33rpm, and speeds up towards the centre. Only records recorded specifically for the Controller can be played , though it can be easily removed.

Also this video to see it operating:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_TW3ns1e1I