The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It could be interesting to hear your opinions, since I know they are split.
Would you drive a total of 200 km to buy this Columbia 205, to save it?
The price will most probably be very low for the machine itself ( maybe arond 20 euro), but yes,,,I know it is a cheap basement machine, and I of course don't need it.
But the question is, is it worth saving, if I don't buy it, the risk is big it will end on the landfill. It is part of the HMV history, that is my consideration here.
The soundbox does not look original to my eyes, but that is the smallest challenge, since I have some of these stored.

If it's in working condition, I'd go for it. I've listened to a similar model with a rebuilt sound box and it's not bad. Not as "deep" or quite as powerful as an HMV 102, but still within the range, and the build quality isn't bad compared to the cheap stuff.

It's a nice green color, so you could always take it to your local pub on St. Patrick's Day--only five weeks away!!!-- and serenade the crowd with a few selections from John McCormack, perhaps in exchange for an open (gratis) tab?

Just my two pence.

OrthoFan

No, I wouldn't waste the money on fuel, let alone the time and effort. They're very common machines and rather cheaply made and put together. We don't need to save all the rubbish ever manufactured otherwise we'd all be saving Austin Allegros and Maxis in the bargain.

Just my 0.02

Steve wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:45 pm No, I wouldn't waste the money on fuel, let alone the time and effort. They're very common machines and rather cheaply made and put together. We don't need to save all the rubbish ever manufactured otherwise we'd all be saving Austin Allegros and Maxis in the bargain.

Just my 0.02

I think I should amend my comment above.

In terms of the "build quality," I was comparing the 205 to the models available in the American market during the late-1930s into the 1940s. Most--if not all--of these were equipped with cardboard fiber molded tapered amplifying chambers; leaky pot-metal tonearms that dragged across the record's surface--no ball bearings were used at the pivot joint; overly-heavy pot-metal sound boxes that relied on large pointed lugs as need-bar pivots; and cheaply made thin plywood cabinets that were either glued, nailed, or stapled together and covered with faux leather or fabric. Birch, Pal, RCA-Victor, Sears Silvertone, etc. come to mind.

But I agree, compared to the high quality portables available in the UK during this period, the 205 does come out second rate, and it seems that the high quality models are available relatively inexpensively compared to the US, where they seems to average $400+ for anything decent--based on what I've spotted recently.

Along this line, 200 km translates into roughly 125 miles, so for a 250 mile round trip coupled with today's high prices for gasoline, it may not be worth it, even for a 20 Euro (approximate $20.00) initial investment.

That said, I guess it really depends on how much you want it.

OrthoFan

PS -- You said that the sound box is probably not original, but on blowing up the image, I noted a curious "shadow" to the right of the tonearm's base along with a missing screw. Could the tonearm also be a replacement?

OrthoFan wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:48 pm

Steve wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:45 pm No, I wouldn't waste the money on fuel, let alone the time and effort. They're very common machines and rather cheaply made and put together. We don't need to save all the rubbish ever manufactured otherwise we'd all be saving Austin Allegros and Maxis in the bargain.

Just my 0.02

I think I should amend my comment above.

In terms of the "build quality," I was comparing the 205 to the models available in the American market during the late-1930s into the 1940s. Most--if not all--of these were equipped with cardboard fiber molded tapered amplifying chambers; leaky pot-metal tonearms that dragged across the record's surface--no ball bearings were used at the pivot joint; overly-heavy pot-metal sound boxes that relied on large pointed lugs as need-bar pivots; and cheaply made thin plywood cabinets that were either glued, nailed, or stapled together and covered with faux leather or fabric. Birch, Pal, RCA-Victor, Sears Silvertone, etc. come to mind.

But I agree, compared to the high quality portables available in the UK during this period, the 205 does come out second rate, and it seems that the high quality models are available relatively inexpensively compared to the US, where they seems to average $400+ for anything decent--based on what I've spotted recently.

Along this line, 200 km translates into roughly 125 miles, so for a 250 mile round trip coupled with today's high prices for gasoline, it may not be worth it, even for a 20 Euro (approximate $20.00) initial investment.

That said, I guess it really depends on how much you want it.

OrthoFan

PS -- You said that the sound box is probably not original, but on blowing up the image, I noted a curious "shadow" to the right of the tonearm's base along with a missing screw. Could the tonearm also be a replacement?

No need to change your post! Opinions are after all just that and depending on location we all see these things differently. But with that said you are right, I didn't even get as far as looking at the tonearm but it isn't even the original. If I was given this machine I'd chuck it.

Martin, with the best will in the world you cannot hope to save every machine which comes your way.
As others have pointed out, this 205 is a bottom of the range model with a non original tonearm and soundbox. Whoever did the replacement is unlikely to have considered the matter of tracking alignment, which will probably be so bad that it will damage any records played on it.

You have already saved many quality machines in a remarkably short space of time, which is something to be proud of.

As stated, this was more a rhetorical question, since I think I already have a green Columbia 205 stuck somewhere too. Still, I admittedly don't like the idea of these machines ending on the landfill, since it is part of the history, but yes, I can't save every gramophone that comes my way. But yes, I already really had decided to pass on this one.
All that said, I am expecting a hard to find Columbia import portable during the next two weeks, we will have a look at that one further on It will be the first time I have imported a machine from Japan, it will be expensive, probably even the most expensive machine I have bought so far taking into consideration taxes and shipping cost, and it is still only a portable, but I really wanted this one.

Even though you have already made up your mind, I'll say that whatever the project, it only matters if it's worth it to you. Let's face it, for the most part, none of this hobby makes much sense in the financial sense. Unless you're a dealer, I hope that's not your main motivation, (as it does not appear to be). You original question reminds me of a question my Aunt once asked my mother while out shopping for shoes. My Aunt tried on a pair and asked my mother, "Do these shoes fit me?" Only you can know if "the shoe fits" .

Steve wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:09 am ...Opinions are after all just that and depending on location we all see these things differently. But with that said you are right, I didn't even get as far as looking at the tonearm but it isn't even the original. If I was given this machine I'd chuck it.

Hi Steve:

Many thanks. Since the acquisition of this particular example is now moot, I'm wondering, what are some of the differences in build-quality between the lower-end branded portables such as the Columbia 205/HMV 87 and the HMV 102, etc.? (I already know of the differences between what was offered to the American buyers in the mid-1930s through the 1950s, compared to the deluxe models available in the late 1920s/early 1930s, as I noted.) For instance, were they fitted with cheaper less powerful motors, pressed paper cases, paper-backed covers, smaller tone chambers, etc.?

Just curious, but I think for newbies, the comparison information would be valuable, especially in cases where the sellers asking prices for the low-end examples is comparable to the high end models.

OrthoFan

Jerry, I am as far away from being a dealer as is possible. I am first, last and always a collector, and my main interest is repairing, trying to save what can be saved.
The rhetorical question about this green Columbia 205, was philosophical and to possibly ignite a small disussion about saving less valuable machines, that still may be hard to find. If becoming a dealer, I could probably not start at a worse end than with this cheap Columbia too
BUT, I also know they are scarce, when googling, I can't find any green Columbia 205 online, and knowing they are part of the history, my historical interest ( that is quite strong) enters my conscience. How many green Columbia 205 could there be left...5,10,50, 100? That's my main thought, and not as financial gain, since there probably also ain't any, but to possibly save it from the landfill. Being 61, I have witnessed different kind of items ending on the landfill for decades, and later on everyone asked...why did we throw that item away, where do we find a copy today. We all know this is a cheap style gramophone, but does it still deserve it's place in history and be saved from being crushed?
That would be my only motivation for saving this green Columbia 205, it would never be displayed, since I have no room for it, at least not if I dont' move to another location where I can display all the portables, which would be nice of course, but still rather unlikely, since I am storing close to 50 in my storage locker. Of course I have a small space for it in my storage locker, and I also have a tone arm for it, so the lingering question really is, how scarce are they, and do they deserve to be saved if they are scarce? If it was a black HMV 87, I would not bother, since they are plenty.
I am not saying I will drive out to buy it, to save it, and store it, but the "worth" here is only used for historical reasons, and not financial gain.