"Hints to Victor Salesmen" record

[Zenger]

I found this in a batch of 78's I recently picked up, and it's a mystery to me. I have an Edison sales cylinder and Edison "sample" disc records that were issued to dealers, but I had no idea this Victor record existed. One side is "Hints to Victor Salesmen," and the other is "Victor Talks to Juvenile Customers." (The latter side is in two parts with a break in between.) The "hints" side has some script impressed into the label -- not sure if it came from the factory that way or not. Does anyone know when these would have been pressed? Are there other titles like it from them? Would it have been distributed only to dealers and salesmen?

[vintagetenor]

How unusual to see a double-sided Grand Prize label. These sides were originally issued separately. They have different catalog numbers.

[Wolfe]

How unusual to see a double-sided Grand Prize label. These sides were originally issued separately. They have different catalog numbers.

These are two different releases. Two different catalog numbers. Victor didn't start with two sided discs until the patents label.

The first one has Len Spencer's name underneath the label, as Len Spencer is the speaker on the record. It was written on the wax master, not impressed into the label.

[PeterF]

Please share recordings of both sides with us!

[ChesterCheetah18]

This record is discussed in Michael Sherman's "Collector's Guide To Victor Records" revised edition (pg.218) and is referred to as an "In-House" recording. They were intended to train and motivate dealers, salesman and workforce members. He describes it as "extremely rare", and 2036 was recorded by Len Spencer in November 1905. Nice find!!!

Steve

[Zenger]

Thanks, everyone! Upon closer inspection, 2035 (the "juvenile" side) has some writing on it, too. Near as I can tell, it says:

11-3-05
9S Sap (or Sap)
Little Boy Little Girl
Spencer

See picture.

I don't understand how something written on the wax master can be seen through the label; can someone please enlighten me?

Also, I, too have never seen a double-sided disc with a Grand Prize label before -- yet here one is. Could this have been reissued later using an old label?

Finally, I'm afraid I don't yet have the technology to record these digitally, but as soon as I do I will post them!

[vintagetenor]

Ah, so I didn't misunderstand. It is a double-sided record.

It is perfectly plausible that the technology (and perhaps the equipment) to press double-sided discs existed years before Victor (or Columbia, for that matter) introduced them to the market. But this record was not intended to be marketed to the public.

Has anyone here seen single-sided copies of these?

[PeterF]

PM sent. Let’s see what we can do to get the record into the rest of our ears…

[Ben the phono man]

Wow, cool find! This must be one of the earliest salesman discs!

[Roaring20s]

... I don't understand how something written on the wax master can be seen through the label; can someone please enlighten me?

We see it whether the written impressions have tiny ridges around surface or it's seen due to wear on the paper surface. We can normally see round ridges under labels, and once you start looking at labels, you will start seeing the ways that the masters were identified in this "hidden area" of the record.

James.