The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The new boxes of records have opened a door into to what was heretofore an alien area of collecting, early acoustic records. For me before this, the Twenties were early, really early.

I have to say I am enjoying myself in this new area.

Here is a record from The Gramophone and Typewriter Company, with what was later to become the image for Angel classical records. It is the H.M. Coldstream Guards band playing a selection from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance, Poor Wandering One.

There are fairly extensive discographies of The Gramophone and Typewriter Company releases, but I cannot find this disk in any of them. Can anyone offer more information about the record? And what is the significance of the label. "REPRODUCED IN HANOVER," on the non-playing side of the disk?

Thanks.

You should be able to find more about it by entering the matrix number into the Kelly database basic search: https://kellydatabase.org/Entry.aspx

[edit] As to "reproduced in Hannover," the Gramophone Co. had a pressing plant there.

Thanks.

The only thing that shows up in the database is this, which is not entirely the same:

You did search by matrix number (engraved in the wax), right? Not doubting--just confirming. The database can be persnickety about how requests are entered. Assuming that you did, I don't know why it wouldn't show up; Kelly is usually quite reliable about such things, although much less so about providing parallel Victor issue numbers. But if it didn't, it didn't, and my apologies for sending you off on a wild goose chase.

The Hanover pressing plant was set up in August 1898 in Joseph Berliner's telephone factory.
It was not until June 1908 that pressing commenced at the new Hayes factory.

drh wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:32 am You did search by matrix number (engraved in the wax), right? Not doubting--just confirming.

Yes. But perhaps not correctly. I tried various permutations of the numbers in the wax and consistently got no hits in the database.

The single hit I got was by entering "Coldstream Guards" into the Artist field and "Penzance" into the Title field. This search produced a record for a 7" disk, same artist and same tune, rather than for the 10" one I was seeking.. A search with "Poor Wandering One" rather than "Penzance" produced nothing.

The number on the printed label is G.C.-2-16
Above the label in the wax, slightly off centre to the right, the number 2-16 is repeated.
Below the label in the wax, slightly off centre to the left, there is the number, 4679.

epigramophone wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:05 am The Hanover pressing plant was set up in August 1898 in Joseph Berliner's telephone factory.
It was not until June 1908 that pressing commenced at the new Hayes factory.

Thank you for this information.

drh wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:32 am I don't know why it wouldn't show up; Kelly is usually quite reliable about such things... But if it didn't, it didn't, and my apologies for sending you off on a wild goose chase.

Thank you for the apology. I refuse to accept it, though, because it wasn't necessary.

It was a very interesting wild goose chase/rabbit hole.

Interesting indeed--4679, which would be the matrix number, yields up this:

Data Source:File C - Suf-b.docx Recordings in File:17,534
Location London England Recording Date:1903-12-11 Other:
Title(s): [1] 'A Frangesa, March (Costa)
Issued: Size:10-inch
Session Performer(s): COLDSTREAM GUARDS BAND
Recording Notes: Original Issue #s: 2-16

Correct issue number and artist for your record (and I presume size?), but a different selection. I wonder if that's an error in the database? Or if it carries over an error in the original HMV files underlying it? Curiouser and curiouser!

[edit] A though occurs: have you played the record? Does it actually contain "Poor Wandering One"?

drh wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:18 am ICuriouser and curiouser!

[edit] A though occurs: have you played the record? Does it actually contain "Poor Wandering One"?

It is very definitely not the 'A Frangesa march.

It is, however, most definitely a very curious martial/march-like version of Poor Wandering One.

I am reluctant to play it much because its surface seems a little fragile and because there is already some damage to it.