The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have an Edison diamond disc phonograph the metal plate with the serial number reads J19 sm- - - 1768. I can't find any information about this model or what it's worth. How old is it?

All the "19" models were made starting in 1919 and continuing into the 1920s. The J19 "Jacobean" is not a particularly rare or interesting machine. Assuming it works properly, is in decent condition, and has a good diamond stylus (i.e., it plays but does not mark the records), a collector-to-collector sale would be somewhere between $150 and $250.

The J-19 was known as the Jacobean model. According to Frow's book on diamond disc phonos, it was introduced as the D-25 in November 1918 and redesignated J-19 in April 1919. It remained in the catalogue until August 1927. It had the large horn of the "laboratory models" and was priced about the same when new, but unlike those machine it had a motor with only a single spring; hence, it never sold well. Today I think it probably falls in the class of "uncommon but not valuable." Leaving aside that we don't know your machine's condition, which will play a big role, it's hard to give a price figure, since these things don't come up often, but I get the impression there's not a lot of demand for them, either. The handful (at most) I've seen on eBay over the years have tended to linger there for a long time.

Some photos would be nice, if you care to share any. Welcome to the forum!

Here you go.

Adapter92 wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:02 pm Here you go.

Thanks! I'd say if you're looking to dispose of it, you have a hard sell on your hands. It's been badly refinished (the finish when new was much more of an antique oak), the decorative moldings are nothing like the original (that thing in the middle over the horn opening is covering over what was supposed to be contrasting wood inlay, ebony and holly according to Frow, and the appliques on either side should be more urn shaped and also in ebony), and it's missing the grille. That last is a particularly sore point, because, as I noted earlier, this machine sold poorly when new, so cabinet parts will be very hard to come by, and I would expect finding a replacement grille, almost never an easy task, would be particularly difficult for a J-19.

Sorry to be Debby Downer here, but those are just the sorts of points that will turn off collectors in no time. A shame; I know it's never been popular, but I actually think it was an attractive design.

[Edit: All that said, if you want to put in service as a regular player for diamond discs, assuming the "innards" are good, it should sound just as good as any of the so-called "laboratory models," as it shares the same components for playback, the horn and reproducer. Naturally, with the single-spring motor, you'll get fewer sides per winding, but that's really not a serious issue from the standpoint of enjoying the music. I'm adding another image from the same source showing what the works should look like.]

Here's an image from the web (specifically, from a dealer's site called Intertique) showing what it should look like:

The machine shown above has also been stripped of its original finish. This one has the original finish.

"Assuming it works properly, is in decent condition, and has a good diamond stylus (i.e., it plays but does not mark the records), a collector-to-collector sale would be somewhere between $150 and $250."

In the condition shown in the first picture - $50, or less (and that's without seeing the condition inside).

Curt A wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:51 pm "Assuming it works properly, is in decent condition, and has a good diamond stylus (i.e., it plays but does not mark the records), a collector-to-collector sale would be somewhere between $150 and $250."

In the condition shown in the first picture - $50, or less (and that's without seeing the condition inside).

Yes, but that comment was made before any pictures were posted.

I agree, $50-ish as it sits, although one could argue that a working reproducer with a good stylus is worth more than $50 by itself.

I happened to be in front of the computer today and figured I would chime in on this and offer my humble opinion.... and, I do stress humble...

"Collector to collector" prices are a unique thing. There are other markets to consider, also, while doing your research. Collectors have a keen eye and look for rarity and quality. You may want to consider the interior design trade or your local antiques mall/consignment shop as an outlet to sell a phonograph in this condition. While its collectability may be low [due to the refinishing], a non collector or "average joe" might be a serious buyer in the $175 to $275 price range for a working/playing phonograph. Of course, they would simply be pleased to have an "old record player" that worked and a conversation piece for their home.

I am just throwing that out there for the benefit of the original poster... While a collector may not be super interested, there are other options.

Take care!! - Chris

Granby wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:09 am I happened to be in front of the computer today and figured I would chime in on this and offer my humble opinion.... and, I do stress humble...

"Collector to collector" prices are a unique thing. There are other markets to consider, also, while doing your research. Collectors have a keen eye and look for rarity and quality. You may want to consider the interior design trade or your local antiques mall/consignment shop as an outlet to sell a phonograph in this condition. While its collectability may be low [due to the refinishing], a non collector or "average joe" might be a serious buyer in the $175 to $275 price range for a working/playing phonograph. Of course, they would simply be pleased to have an "old record player" that worked and a conversation piece for their home.

I am just throwing that out there for the benefit of the original poster... While a collector may not be super interested, there are other options.

Take care!! - Chris

Very true Chris! For the past several years I have donated a phonograph to my church's rummage sale. They get far more for them than I ever could within the collector community. Yes, I suppose the "good cause" factor comes into play, but that only goes so far.