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I wanted to share a solution I have come up with for playing Indestructible and other celluloid cylinders that have shrunken over time to the point that the reproducer no longer tracks properly and the record begins to skip and sounds distorted. The modification consists of a new two-piece carriage sleave and a cam holding bracket. The left side sleave holds the original feed bar and feed nut. The right side sleave holds the original reproducer holding frame. The cam holding bracket just slips on to the carriage shaft, as you will see in the videos. The two separate carriage sleaves are key together axially, but are free to slide longitudinally on the carriage shaft. The two carriage sleaves are in contact with each other by way of a cam lever, one end of which has a roller that rides on an adjustable cam ramp which is mounted on the cam holding bracket. The left feed carriage sleave actually pushes the reproducer carriage along as the record plays.

So, depending on the slope of the cam ramp, the reproducer carriage can be adjusted to move slower than the feed carriage, (necessary for proper tracking of shrunken cylinders), to move at the same speed as the feed carriage, (for playing wax cylinders that haven't shrunken), or to even move faster than the feed carriage, (possibly for cutting new records for making molds that require additional lead).

The new carriage assembly works very smoothly and I have finally been able to listen to some of my favorite records that previously would begin skipping about two thirds the way through. Making this assembly was rather straightforward, but it did take quite a few hours to complete. I know that a project of this kind may possibly be beyond the capability and/or interest of many collectors, but I wanted to demonstrate that it is possible to compensate for shrunken celluloid cylinders. Also, there may be other ways to accomplish the same adjustments.

I have made four videos to show how the new carriage works. The carriage sleaves and cam bracket are on an Edison Triumph phonograph model D. The original parts can be replaced in less than a minute.

The first video just shows how the feed carriage pushes the reproducer carriage along. The actual contact point between the two carriages is the cam operated lever that follows the adjustable cam ramp. A dial indicator is temporarily clamped to the feed carriage and a target is clamped to the reproducer carriage. Clockwise rotation of the pointer indicates that the reproducer carriage is moving toward the feed carriage. Each mark on the dial represents 1/1000 inch motion. Four minute records have 200 grooves per inch, so each groove is 5/1000 inch. So every five marks shown on the dial means that the reproducer carriage has been retarded one groove. The records that I have tested so far have required about 60/1000 inch retarding or about 12 grooves (60/1000 inch is about 1/16 inch).

The second video shows the action of the cam lever. The adjustable cam ramp and the bracket have been removed for the sake of visibility. The axial keying is also apparent here.

The third video shows a record playing with the dial indicator still in place. As the record plays, you can see the pointer slowly moves clockwise from "0" to about "60", indicating that the reproducer has been retarded about 12 grooves. I imagine that other records may need different amounts of correction. I haven't yet tried any Edison records.

The fourth video shows a cylinder playing with just the new carriage assembly. This particular record previously would always start giving trouble about half to two thirds the way through.

Dan Zalewski

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_dZfq3UDb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuswHSKxROo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12D3gFnuyg&t=66s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-yBFCvsLHU&t=6s

Nice to see someone who has put some serious thought into this and come up with such a practical solution. Well Done!!

Thanks Wes, Even though I tried to make the unit as simple as possible and that could be attached without damaging the machine, it still required a good amount of careful machining. It would be nice if something like this could be made even simpler and therefore at a price that some collectors might be interested in having one. I will still be thinking about this.
Dan Zalewski

As a tool and die machinist and millwright of 40+ years, I must commend you on your brilliance as this is wickedly clever, and very well executed. Well done! I am impressed!

Nicely done, Dan! It's even interesting to watch the dial indicator movement during play of the cylinder. I'm presuming that this only works for Indestructible (including U-S Everlasting and Lakeside) cylinders that have the shrinkage problem? And to play a cylinder that has no shrinkage problem one would need to change to the original carriage configuration? If this is true then the ultimate would be to design one of these that would allow play of both shrinkage-problem cylinders and those that play fine. I'd be willing to bet that if this could be designed and sold at a somewhat reasonable price there would be a long line of customers waiting to buy one (myself included).

Thanks for sharing this!
Doug

Hi Doug. I didn't include this photo in my first post, but this is where the feed amount is adjusted. The knurled knob can be loosened and the cam moved to give any amount of correction required including none at all for playing cylinders that haven't shrunken. BTW, I just saw that you have many videos of music boxes available. I recently acquired a nice Paillard Gem interchangeable cylinder music box and now I've become obsessed with that whole world. I'll be sure to look at your videos.
Dan Zalewski

If you’re obsessed with musical boxes, please feel free to check out my YouTube page:
https://youtube.com/@phonospud?feature=shared

I also have a Facebook page too. My machine shop is completely dedicated to manufacturing all known parts for cylinder and disc music box including cycloidal wheels and pinions, cylinder repinning, endless screws, and flawless teeth replacements, sometimes full manufacture of combs.
Shameless self promotion, don’t mean to hijack your post.
https://www.facebook.com/Darrensmusical ... tid=LQQJ4d

Hi Phonospud.
I think I've seen many of your Facebook postings although certainly not some of the older ones. I also joined the Cylinder Music Box Facebook group. I recently commented on that Jacot catalog you posted. I will look at your other things for sure. I was involved with making parts for antique Phonographs quite a few years ago but became somewhat dormant when other life events needed my time. I have recently begun making parts again, such as hinge blocks in both the 0-110 and 1-64 size. Brian Parlier sells these now and a couple of the known reproducer repair specialists.
Dan Zalewski

Clever design and beautiful workmanship.

Yamaphone wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:34 am Hi Doug. I didn't include this photo in my first post, but this is where the feed amount is adjusted. The knurled knob can be loosened and the cam moved to give any amount of correction required including none at all for playing cylinders that haven't shrunken. BTW, I just saw that you have many videos of music boxes available. I recently acquired a nice Paillard Gem interchangeable cylinder music box and now I've become obsessed with that whole world. I'll be sure to look at your videos.
Dan Zalewski

Hey Dan, That is great to hear that you have included an option to play cylinders without any shrinkage problems. If you should decide someday to make any more like yours let me know by PM. You never know...I may be interested in getting one.

And thanks for stopping in to my MusicBoxBoy channel on Youtube, Dan! Congrats on getting a nice Paillard interchangeable cylinder music box too! There's something ethereal about the sound of an early music box. I've always preferred the larger disc music boxes mainly because they (generally) provide a greater selection of music but if I wanted a cylinder music box it would be one similar to yours. Enjoy!

Doug