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I should know this, but for some reason I can't find it.....what year did Victor switch to from round to triangular needle chucks to accomodate the fibre needles?

According to Tim Gracyk's site:

For a long period, from around 1903 into the 1920s, Victor manufactured its fine Exhibition Sound-Box. The earliest of these are designed to hold steel needles only, not fibre needles. Triangular-shaped "chucks" (needle holders) were in Exhibition heads by 1910.

Hope that helps!

Tinkerbell wrote:According to Tim Gracyk's site:

For a long period, from around 1903 into the 1920s, Victor manufactured its fine Exhibition Sound-Box. The earliest of these are designed to hold steel needles only, not fibre needles. Triangular-shaped "chucks" (needle holders) were in Exhibition heads by 1910.

Hope that helps!

Thanks a bunch. That's exactly what I was looking for (remembered seening it somewhere, just couldn't remember where).

FYI, I think there's similar information in Baumbach's Victor Data Book, IIRC.

So, if the round holers were around from 1903 to 1910, why are there so few of them around? On eBay you'd think those things were made of gold they way the bidding goes.

Comparatively fewer, I'd say. If you look at production numbers of the many various Victors and Victrolas before and after 1910, you'd have your answer. Just off the top of my head, the total production of the VV-XI was over 800,000 units. After 1917 they were furnished not with the Exhibition, but rather with the no. 2, although the Ex. continued to be produced for a number of years afterwards. It would take some digging to sort out the dates and numbers, but I daresay that the Victor Data Book would provide the answer.

For what it's worth, my L-door XVI, s/n 19362 C(stamped over top "B") has a round-hole Exhibition.

The original sales receipt is from John Wanamaker, February 1911.

I cite from the priceless "The Collectors Guide to His Master's Voice Nipper Souvenirs":

In the autumn of 1910 the Victor Talking Machine Co. acquired the rights to fibre needles, patented by the B & H Fibre Manufacturing Co. of Chicago. By 1st November 1910, the Gramophone Co. received samples, but general opinion was unfavourable: "Very unsatisfactory. The reproduction is feeble and I have not been able to get one to play over a 12 inch record and get a clear reproduction to the finish. In most cases about the middle of the record the needle was so badly worn that it was simply riding on the top of the disc." (Sinkler Darby, Gramophone Co. recording expert)

The American interests put pressure upon The Gramophone Co. to adopt the new needle. The initial issue of fibre needles was made by The Gramophone Co. into their territory in January 1912.

As a side-note, there were fibre needles produced with round shanks on them to fit the earlier round needle chucks. I would suspect that this is the original form of the fibre needle, and they became completely triangular after the deal with Victor. The triangular needles would have fit only Victors until the rest of the industry changed the shape of their needle chucks. I wonder if Victor attempted to patent the triangular chuck?

Retrograde wrote:So, if the round holers were around from 1903 to 1910, why are there so few of them around? On eBay you'd think those things were made of gold they way the bidding goes.

In part Victor was producing fewer machines in that time period (consider that the VV-IV, VI, IX, X, and XI made up over 40% of all machines the Victor company produced), and also, the Victor company encouraged people to upgrade, so it is not uncommon to find an Exhibition with the characteristics of what should have a round chuck (lettering, serical number w/o letter suffix, and straight rather than curved connection to the isolator), that has been "upgraded" with a triangular chuck.

One more little detail is the earlier ones should have curled nuts rather than hex nuts on the balance screws. I have no idea when they made that swtich, but I'm guessing it was before the introduction of the triangular chuck, as I've seen round holers with hex nuts. I've always been intrigued by all the varations in the Exhibition. I think between Victor and the UK versions, I've pulled together 8-10 different types of Exhibitions (my personal fav. is the HMV one with the nipper logo at the 12 o'clock position).