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Victor M Help
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:35 pm
by pg1876
Happy Thanksgiving, All. Fortune smiled upon me as I was able to find this Victor M in the wild. Yet being almost strictly Edison-focused, I am really not too familiar with what's come into my possession. The modern bolts used secure the bracket gave me initial concern that the machine had been tampered with. But once I got it home, it appears, to my neophyte eye, to look largely unmolested? This is where I look to you, dear reader.
I was very happy to find inside the crank, an Exhibition repro., and a piece that I don't believe even goes to this machine? I gave the motor a few turns of the crack and it runs down. Some noise coming from the governor region but I have read that these early motors are known to produce some noise?
The reproducer is going to need a new rear flange and gasket certainly. Also new mica diaphragm?
No horn, or horn elbow. I will now be on the hunt. What horn would be correct for this machine?
Thanks!
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:59 pm
by Curt A
You need two knurled machine screws made specifically to hold the back bracket on and a rectangular steel plate that has two threaded holes. The plate mounts inside the case to thread the screws into, instead of nuts - shouldn't be too hard to find. The round thing is not phonograph related and there are several types of horns that would be appropriate.
That is a great find. I have the same machine in the earlier front mount version - it's a favorite.
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:02 pm
by pallophotophone
The round thing looks like part of a tripod minus it's legs.
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:13 pm
by Curt A
The rust on the crank can be removed with steel wool, wet it with WD-40 first. The reproducer was originally nickled, so it needs cleaning - you got a good one with the lever operated needle chuck. Rebuilding it is simple , there is info on this forum and gasket material is readily available. The mica is probably OK - just needs cleaning unless it is badly separated.
I thought the same thing about the round part being from a tripod...
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:19 pm
by kiwiatlarge
pg1876 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:35 pm
Happy Thanksgiving, All. Fortune smiled upon me as I was able to find this Victor M in the wild. Yet being almost strictly Edison-focused, I am really not too familiar with what's come into my possession. The modern bolts used secure the bracket gave me initial concern that the machine had been tampered with. But once I got it home, it appears, to my neophyte eye, to look largely unmolested? This is where I look to you, dear reader.
I was very happy to find inside the crank, an Exhibition repro., and a piece that I don't believe even goes to this machine? I gave the motor a few turns of the crack and it runs down. Some noise coming from the governor region but I have read that these early motors are known to produce some noise?
The reproducer is going to need a new rear flange and gasket certainly. Also new mica diaphragm?
No horn, or horn elbow. I will now be on the hunt. What horn would be correct for this machine?
Thanks!
Great find. The original horn would likely have been a 21" black and brass horn, though folks may have upgraded later to a #19 Flower horn. These are pretty available and I'm sure TMF can help source one. Personally I think the black and brass looks better. There seem to be couple of original elbows on eBay right now - see
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256291571299. Depending on where you live there are a few folk who can help with the motor. Usually they aren't expensive to service if you don't want to do it yourself. Bevel drives are noisy but not that bad. Rebuilding that reproducer is simple and the parts are available on eBay, or just send it to Wyatt Markus to rebuild. It will sound better than when it came from the factory if he does it.
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:48 pm
by pg1876
Thank you all, this has been very helpful to get started.
Curt and pallophotophone - you are correct, that is indeed the top of a tripod. Who knows why it was kept inside the phonograph or what happened to the legs, but that is what it is.
Curt, thanks for the tip on cleaning up the crank. Was the reproducer arm nickel plated as well? If so, is there any way to bring that back to life?
kiwiatlarge - thanks for the insight on the proper horns and elbow
I was also reading on the Victor-Victrola website that Victor changed to the tapered arm design in 1902, and increased the price to $40 in early 1903. My machine has a tag on the base stating that it should be sold for $40, placing it thus at least in 1903. With a serial number in the 44,000's, is it most likely this is a 1904/05 machine?
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 7:05 pm
by JerryVan
Yes, the tone arm is nickel plated also. Some elbow grease and metal polish should brighten it up. Nothing too abrasive. This would not be a good spot for steel wool.
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:13 pm
by kiwiatlarge
pg1876 wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:48 pm
Thank you all, this has been very helpful to get started.
Curt and pallophotophone - you are correct, that is indeed the top of a tripod. Who knows why it was kept inside the phonograph or what happened to the legs, but that is what it is.
Curt, thanks for the tip on cleaning up the crank. Was the reproducer arm nickel plated as well? If so, is there any way to bring that back to life?
kiwiatlarge - thanks for the insight on the proper horns and elbow
I was also reading on the Victor-Victrola website that Victor changed to the tapered arm design in 1902, and increased the price to $40 in early 1903. My machine has a tag on the base stating that it should be sold for $40, placing it thus at least in 1903. With a serial number in the 44,000's, is it most likely this is a 1904/05 machine?
Your dates seem right. The Victor data book would put this at early 1905 if my addition of production numbers is right, though these data are fairly inaccurate before 1906.
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:39 pm
by fonograph
I have a black and brass M horn that I've been saving in case I get an M. But, I'm still waiting on one. It's already been rolled out so it's ready to install and it looks great. I've got 225 in it (including having it rolled). If your interested in it I'll sell it for that. I can send pics if interested.
Bob
Re: Victor M Help
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:29 pm
by Jerry B.
The elbow you need was also used on the MS, D, and with very minor differences on a Victor III, IV, V, and VI (gold). The lettered machines, like your M, used limit pins to limit how far the horn could be turned on the back bracket. The numbered machines, such as the Victor III, had a raised portion on the elbow to accomplish the same limiting results. It is common to find pinned elbows with missing or bent pins. I really don't know when the elbows were changed and either type would work on your Victor M.
Jerry B.