The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Finally finished this French Senior Monarch.
Needed a new fibre gear, internal brake mechanism making and the case gluing at the corners- oh plus a new baseboard.

Can anyone help on the noise though of the motor? I understand these bevel geared motors are noisier than later ones but it’s really quite loud. I’ve adjusted the governor repeatedly but it’s still loud, and amplified by the case. (I’ve put some rubber between the motor and motorboard but it needed to be so thin to stop the turntable rubbing). I’ve checked all the gears, teeth aren’t worn and everything is adjusted correctly. I did wonder if the turntable gear should have play on it up and down, but if the horizontal bevel gear is moved up, it doesn’t mesh properly.

Also, the cast iron turntable is warped, not so badly but it’s annoying. I guess with it being cast iron it can’t be straightened.

Anyone able to offer some advice pls?

If this is the green horn you asked about touching up - PLEASE, leave it alone - it's beautiful.

Touching up the paint or re-painting will drastically diminish its' value... that is definitely "Paris Green"
Cast iron can't be straightened, so forget that "annoying" detail - this is over 100 years old and should not look new... Antiques are not for perfectionists...

You will never be able to "touch up" the paint and a re-paint should be out of the question...
IF you can't handle the appearance, sell it and buy another. Sell it to me if you choose that route...

You do realise the paint has been stripped in places leaving bare metal, plus it’s discoloured. If you want to swap me for a black one feel free!

With respect, my question was about the noise and turntable and not the horn.

As it happens the areas that need attention are minor and in places where it’s hardly noticeable.

Where are you located?

Curt A wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 2:35 pm Where are you located?

Just PMd you.

The fiber gear is almost certainly the cause of noise, (it almost always is). I see that it's new, but consider that it's running along with the original governor gear that most likely has wear of its own. Replacing 1 gear of a worn, 2 gear set, seldom makes for a quiet gear train. You might hope that with use, things may quiet down a bit.

Is the turntable really warped, or is the spindle shaft bent, or the turntable hole worn & sloppy.

BTW, beautiful machine, and yes... I like the horn too.

JerryVan wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:45 pm The fiber gear is almost certainly the cause of noise, (it almost always is). I see that it's new, but consider that it's running along with the original governor gear that most likely has wear of its own. Replacing 1 gear of a worn, 2 gear set, seldom makes for a quiet gear train. You might hope that with use, things may quiet down a bit.

Is the turntable really warped, or is the spindle shaft bent, or the turntable hole worn & sloppy.

BTW, beautiful machine, and yes... I like the horn too.

Thanks Jerry, i thought it might have been the bevel gears, but the sound is too fast for that so you’re right, it’s the fibre one i guess. Hopefully with it being softer it might in time bed in a little.

Turntable is definitely bent, I’ve checked the spindle and it’s true. This has the screw on turntable so it sits quite tight, but how cast iron has gone like this I don’t know. It doesn’t affect it playing, just annoying bobbing up and down.

leels1 wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:50 pm

JerryVan wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:45 pm The fiber gear is almost certainly the cause of noise, (it almost always is). I see that it's new, but consider that it's running along with the original governor gear that most likely has wear of its own. Replacing 1 gear of a worn, 2 gear set, seldom makes for a quiet gear train. You might hope that with use, things may quiet down a bit.

Is the turntable really warped, or is the spindle shaft bent, or the turntable hole worn & sloppy.

BTW, beautiful machine, and yes... I like the horn too.

...the sound is too fast for that so you’re right, it’s the fibre one i guess.

Yes, exactly. Great observation!!

Curt A wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 2:19 pm If this is the green horn you asked about touching up - PLEASE, leave it alone - it's beautiful.

Touching up the paint or re-painting will drastically diminish its' value... that is definitely "Paris Green"
Cast iron can't be straightened, so forget that "annoying" detail - this is over 100 years old and should not look new... Antiques are not for perfectionists...

You will never be able to "touch up" the paint and a re-paint should be out of the question...
IF you can't handle the appearance, sell it and buy another. Sell it to me if you choose that route...

Fantastic restoration, that's a beautiful machine! The reproduction elbow looks fine on it. I hope you two can work something out on that horn swap... . I have a Tin Tray Company "Paris" green horn on my Vic III that has worn paint too. I think it comes with the finish and age. And my daughter constantly reminds me that it's the arsenic that makes it that shade of green! TBH - it's not my favorite color either. I've been told that Victor horns in this green are quite collectible. Now on to my New Years beverage from my uranium glass decanter... .

kiwiatlarge wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:24 pm

Curt A wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 2:19 pm If this is the green horn you asked about touching up - PLEASE, leave it alone - it's beautiful.

Touching up the paint or re-painting will drastically diminish its' value... that is definitely "Paris Green"
Cast iron can't be straightened, so forget that "annoying" detail - this is over 100 years old and should not look new... Antiques are not for perfectionists...

You will never be able to "touch up" the paint and a re-paint should be out of the question...
IF you can't handle the appearance, sell it and buy another. Sell it to me if you choose that route...

Fantastic restoration, that's a beautiful machine! The reproduction elbow looks fine on it. I hope you two can work something out on that horn swap... . I have a Tin Tray Company "Paris" green horn on my Vic III that has worn paint too. I think it comes with the finish and age. And my daughter constantly reminds me that it's the arsenic that makes it that shade of green! TBH - it's not my favorite color either. I've been told that Victor horns in this green are quite collectible. Now on to my New Years beverage from my uranium glass decanter... .

IMG_3167.jpeg

Thank! There wasn’t really that much restoring to do. The case was in good condition, some glue here and there and some new parts for the motor and a full service.

The most intensive part was making a new speed control lever for the motor and attaching to the governor brake.