The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi everyone

First time poster. Last year I purchased a Columbia Grafonola Viva Tonal No. 202 from an antiques shop in Eastbourne for £40. Eastbourne Antiques Centre. My first gramophone, although I had a collection of 78s prior to this as I had owned various other non-gramophone machines over the years that could play 78s. I had been looking for a wind up and would have been prepared to spend around £100. Prior to this I had seen a green HMV in a chairty shop in Guildford for £175 but after winding It didn't seem to spin. So I left it. No idea if it was user error or needed repairing as I'd not used one before.

The serial number of my Columbia 202 is 805. From my research I believe it is an early model but I don't know how early. It is front winding.

It came with what I assume was its original soundbox and a no 9. The no 9 comes with its box and was the one fitted.

The original just says Columbia ?Brit? Pat. no. 268257-264263. The no 9 says Columbia no 9, Pat. No. 212137-4264265

The original clearly needed repairs as the sound wasn't great. The No 9 though has been sounding fine by my ears.

I tried to attched some photos of the machine including the soundboxes and the motor inside but they just had warning triangles and didn't upload.

There was some needles in the holder but I wasn't sure if they were used or not. Also a storage metal pot with other needles, which again may have been used.

I am organiaing a 1930s and earlier fancy dress party, where I will be cooking from my late gran's Olivo cookery book. This edition is the 1928 revison but a 1931 printing impression.

The idea is to play pre-WWII 78s. I have more than enough. A friend suggested the 78 party and the idea grew from there. Eventually I decided to hold this in the summer so some people could also be outside, freeing up space inside. I decided I should get a second gramophone for outside. It wouldn't matter if I then had to get rid of it aftwards, due to space, as it would have served a purpose.

I hadn't got round to buying one yet but I had looked on Facebook and eBay. I didn't want to pay a lot for one, as it was intended just for the party.

In Guildford there are two second hand record shops, which I viait regularly. The Collectors Record Centre and Ben's Collectors Records. The first one has a few 78s but not many. The second one gets them in a lot. Most of my collection has come from Ben's.

The other day, I purchased some 8" Edison Radio discs and 8" Broadcasts from Ben's. I think that's the right dimensions from memory. The owner, Ben, was out at lunch but later that day, I was commenting on a Facebook post, as it has been Revord Store Day. Ben said he had a Gramophone in. So on the Sunday afternoon, when he has a day off but someone else runs the shop, I popped in.

Indeed there was a gramophone and to my pleasent surprise, it was a wooden His Masters Voice portable, I just didn't know which one. I suspected it could be a 102C as those were around for some time, if I recall the posts I read on here last year.

I tried it out and it worked but sounded awful. It came with a Soundbox no. 5A.

I decided I'd buy it and messaged Ben for a price. Once I got the price of £40, I popped back.

Got it home and I took the platter off and found it was an His Maters Voice [HMV] W102C. The issue with the sound was caused by an HIs Masters Voice Long Life Needle being worn down. The soundbox seems OK but it is picking up more of the surface noise than the No 9 on my Colbumia 202, so I don't know if it needs servicing.

There was a packet inside containing a further 5 long life needles. Not sure if these were just a gimmick originally or actually very good. Also not sure how many plays one would get from them. I am tempted to just stick to my single use needs.

The packet said made in England but had packed in India stamped on it.

Doing so searching online I've not found any pictures of this wooden His Masters Voice model. I don't know if it is rare at all. I am assuming it was produced for India

When I first tested the speed adjuster, it was stuck but some force go it moving freely.

However, the motor seems to be running too fast as the 78 speed seems to be when the adjustment is set to the slowest point rather than the middle, as it should be. I was comparing Sir Harry Lauder's Keep Right On To The End Of The Road on an His Masters Voice 12" with a YouTube upload, most likely taken from a CD. May not be the same recording as he made multiple recordings of that song but it gave a good enough indication that the speed was too fast when set to 78.

The autobreak worked flawlessly, once I'd figured out how you restart the record. When it didn't work it was due to the record.

The machine comes with its record holder and a clip to hold that in place. There is the odd screw missing and for both machines, I have no manuals or keys.

I've seen reproduction manuals for the 102 for sale on eBay but at £12+£4-5 postage they seem expensive to me.

I don't know what year this W102C was made as I've not opened it up yet. It was a struggle to get the other motor attached back on my 202 when putting that one back together. I am a one-man band when it comes to these things and I'm not that practical.

Again I tried to attched some photos of the W102C machine, including the soundbox but they just had warning triangles and didn't upload the attached photos

I have the contact details of someone who should be able to service these, given I'm not that practical when it comes to fixing things.

If anyone has any info on either of these two models or any tips on what might be causing the speed issue, I'd be very interested.

If nothing else, I had hoped people would enjoy seeing the photos but no joy.

Does anyone else here own a W102C? Needless to say I won't be getting rid of this one. I shall keep both.

Finally, I have started doing the occasional live streams on YouTube. It all started out on Facebook where I wanted to show some friends the Columbia playing a record.

For my first attempt I noticed I could wind the machine amd hold the phone and pitting the phone down looked rubbish. So for my next attempt I used a stand. I then started doing live streams of 78s. To my surprised, some friends actually liked what I was doing

Some after some months I moved to YouTube. I've done 6 shows but currently only have 3 up, as I need to add some further details for 3 of them, shows 3 to 5. YouTube set all live streams to private once finished unless you change them.

I'm still finding my feet with it so to speak, so they might be rough around the edges, with mistakes. I don't go with a preset play list although I might have an idea of some of the records I wish to play in advance. I don't want it to come across too slick and winding up the gramophone is all part of the intended charm.

Show 1 can be found at https://www.youtube.com/live/SRiHUy1iVj ... AHRr2uRCEI

Show 6, where I try out my W102C, and even do a comparison to my 202, can be found at https://www.youtube.com/live/yKRqohQQnK ... 3HPVX7dfPN

I am just using my Samsung S23 Ultra mobile to film with no additional microphones. I did consider getting a separate mic but never did in the end.

Apologies if there are any spelling mistakes or typos. I'm doing this on my mobile. I tried to spot them all.

"I decided I'd buy it and messaged Ben for a price. Once I got the price of £40, I popped back."

I bet you did; in a hurry, I'd imagine! Has Ben got another one he'd like to sell for £40?

Alas, no. He rarely gets such things in. However, he will sell anything musical on any format from near enough any genre. He once had some piano rolls for sale but that's quite rare. I was tempted but I wouldn't have the space for a piano.

He paid £25 for this machine so made his profit so to speak.

He once said to me that others say to him they struggle to sell their 78s. His argument is if you price them right, they will sell.

Congratulations, especially on the 102, what a steal!

An EMG enthusiast friend has recommended Ben's shop as well, I must get there one day.

Conventional wisdom is not to use those long-life needles at all (if you value your records) and of course, use conventional steel needles only once then discard them - either buy them new (Soundgen's are the best) or be 100% certain they are unused and in good condition if you want to use old ones.

Infobleep wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:14 pm Does anyone else here own a W102C? Needless to say I won't be getting rid of this one. I shall keep both.
.

You are not alone! Here are some pictures of my W102C, an eBay purchase for £170 which was still a bargain price.

HMV portables were made in their Calcutta factory. The mechanical components were sent out from Hayes and assembled into locally made hardwood cases. These were more resistant to damage from termites, which were partial to the animal glue in plywood.
The Indian models were never catalogued in the UK. Those which have reached the UK were brought home by British army officers, civil servants etc at the end of their colonial service, hence their comparative rarity here.

I have one too !

I will always remember that the seller was asking a very low price for it. When I stated this to him he thanked me and asked for another £ 10 ! (Telling people the true value of some-thing usually doesn't do me any favours incidentally !).

It belonged to one his wife's relatives who brought it back from India a long time ago.

Here it is:

Really nice to see other people's machine.

This time my photos are uploading. Maybe it was a temporary glitch or the fact it was my first post and fair enough, you don't want spam.

In this post is the W102C and I will put the 202 in the next post.

The 202.

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:04 am Congratulations, especially on the 102, what a steal!

An EMG enthusiast friend has recommended Ben's shop as well, I must get there one day.

Conventional wisdom is not to use those long-life needles at all (if you value your records) and of course, use conventional steel needles only once then discard them - either buy them new (Soundgen's are the best) or be 100% certain they are unused and in good condition if you want to use old ones.

What does EMG stand for?

I will keep the long life needles for decoration.

I have no easy way of know which needles have been used so I've tended not to use ones that came with either machine.

I have been using some by Steele Gramophone Needles and Photoservice.

I got medium tone and soft tone but sometimes I think very soft tone might be good.

I don't know how people work out which speed to set the player going for given record. I do it by what I think sounds right as I'm aware they weren't all recorded at 78 speed.

What is the speed range of an average machine? 68 to 88?

I read an article at https://charm.rhul.ac.uk/history/p20_4_3.html

I have probably been playing some discs too fast.

Infobleep wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:02 pm

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:04 am Congratulations, especially on the 102, what a steal!

An EMG enthusiast friend has recommended Ben's shop as well, I must get there one day.

Conventional wisdom is not to use those long-life needles at all (if you value your records) and of course, use conventional steel needles only once then discard them - either buy them new (Soundgen's are the best) or be 100% certain they are unused and in good condition if you want to use old ones.

What does EMG stand for?

Ellis Michael Ginn.

EMG along with "Expert Handmade Gramophones" were purveyors of the very finest acoustic gramophones made anywhere in the world. Once you've heard a large EMG horn gramophone nothing else ever sounds quite as good, including top of the range HMV / Victor re-entrant horn models.

If you go to Chunny's website you can download a FREE copy of "The EMG Story" which is a very highly recommended read written by the Late Francis James, a good friend to quite a few of us members here.