The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Here I go again, harping about antique phonograph technology! The #2 soundbox was an update and improvement above the Exhibition soundbox previously offered by Victor Talking Machine. The #2 had a gummy tone arm mount flange, a small improvement over the larger "donut" flange of the Exh, a larger diaphragm, and longer needlebar balance springs.

Now, in many previous comparison tests, the Exh soundboxes have ALWAYS sounded better. From clarity, frequency response, and "Sweetness," the Exh soundboxes have always dominated the field. I'm here to DEFEND the #2 soundbox, and to tell all of you that it is worth a second look, and WHY!

There are 3 points I want to touch on: Springs, Gaskets, and Flanges. The springs of an Exh are short, and as a means of restraining the needlebar on the fulcrum points on the soundbox body, do an adequate job albeit they can at times be a bit too tight. The longer springs on the #2 allow the needlebar to be held to the fulcrum points, but have a little more "give," to allow the longer bar to sit properly on its fulcrum points, but not so hard as to strangle the sound out of the needlebar. This may be a technical point of contention among other collectors, as different interpretations of vector kinematics exist.

Next, the gaskets. Age hardened gaskets are ALWAYS BAD, but the available gasketry for the Exh and #2 vary greatly in their application. The current white gasket material for the Exh does its job perfectly. It holds the mica diaphragm gently and snugly, allowing the diaphragm to actually vibrate and reproduce lower frequencies. The original #2 gaskets were designed similarly, but with a different execution. The original gasket was a single piece with a molded channel that suspended the diaphragm in a central position, with LITTLE TO NO COMPRESSION on the diaphragm, but providing an air-tight seal. The natural resilience of the rubber held the diaphragm in place will (again), LITTLE to NO pressure. The #2 diaphragm gaskets that are currently available are made out of ⅛" thick foam rubber (neoprene?), and are already 2X as thick as they need to be. Installing them requires effort because you have to forcefully SQUEEZE the "soundbox sandwich" together before installing the screws which hold the body castings together. Under this extreme amount of clamping pressure, the diaphragm is being hindered tremendously, and it will BLAST on loud passages and low notes.

Lastly, the tone arm mounting flange. The original flanges petrify into rock hard rubber from age, and are therefore not functional. Additionally, the replacement flanges are more plasticine than gummy, offering no insulation between the tone arm and the soundbox, and this too will create a reflexive environment where loud passes and low frequencies will create strident blasting and super-loud reproduction.

Victor recordings, the acoustic ones, are very well made and have a very good spectrum of sound recorded on them that we often miss because out reproducers are simply not doing their jobs as designed.

How I fixed the problem:

1. Cut the foam gaskets to ½ thickness, install in reproducer and shim the set with a cut down Edison Diamond Disc gasket (this laborious step will be eliminated when I get newly designed #2 gaskets made <soon>). This eliminates the high clamping pressure, and allows the diaphragm to actually WORK as intended.

2. Adjust the needle bar to a neutral position on the diaphragm, and turn one of the adjustment screws ½ turn to back the needlebar foot off the diaphragm (to create a slight negative preload which will be taken up when the soundbox is lowered onto a recording).

3. Remove the original hardened rubber flange, and remove all of the hardened rubber from the original brass mounting sleeve. Install a loop of Exh white gasket material inside the reproducer back with clear silicone (or black silicone), install the brass mounting sleeve on top of the white gasket material (centered, and make sure it is level, and that the mounting pin is in the correct position). Then, fill in the area around the brass sleeve with more silicone, taking care to level it off with a q-tip with the top lip of the back casting.

Wait 24 hours for the silicone to dry, throw a Loud needle into it, and grab your favourite Caruso acoustic 78rpm disc.

I normally charge $55 for this service, but you can do it yourself with a little patience.

ENJOY!...and fall in love with your Victrola #2 soundbox again!

-Wyatt

Wyatt,
Thanks for doing such a great job- first for comparing the 2 reproducers and secondly for telling us how to do a very complete rebuild on a #2. Will you let us know when you have the correct thickness spacer/gasket ready to sell?
Abe

Agree that the white gasket material for the Exhibition does the job perfectly. The neoprene(?) back flange that Victor Repair Service used in the rebuild also works fine. In addition, I installed a felt gasket between the back flange and the body of the sound box (I happened to have a felt gasket of just the correct diameter, complete with center hole of correct size, that came in a gasket assortment purchased at Horror Freight). Gasket compliance and total air seal are key to extracting maximum performance from these sound boxes.

I've been telling people for years that a properly rebuilt #2 will blow the doors off an Exhibition. I use an adapter that fits them onto an orthophonic to do my final tests. That isn't saying a finely done Exhibition can't sound good as well, they do. I use my Exhibitions mainly for early acoustics, say pre-1910 and the #2 or #4 for anything after that.

Sean

MicaMonster wrote:Here I go again, harping about antique phonograph technology! The #2 soundbox was an update and improvement above the Exhibition soundbox previously offered by Victor Talking Machine. The #2 had a gummy tone arm mount flange, a small improvement over the larger "donut" flange of the Exh, a larger diaphragm, and longer needlebar balance springs.

Now, in many previous comparison tests, the Exh soundboxes have ALWAYS sounded better. From clarity, frequency response, and "Sweetness," the Exh soundboxes have always dominated the field. I'm here to DEFEND the #2 soundbox, and to tell all of you that it is worth a second look, and WHY!

There are 3 points I want to touch on: Springs, Gaskets, and Flanges. The springs of an Exh are short, and as a means of restraining the needlebar on the fulcrum points on the soundbox body, do an adequate job albeit they can at times be a bit too tight. The longer springs on the #2 allow the needlebar to be held to the fulcrum points, but have a little more "give," to allow the longer bar to sit properly on its fulcrum points, but not so hard as to strangle the sound out of the needlebar. This may be a technical point of contention among other collectors, as different interpretations of vector kinematics exist.

Next, the gaskets. Age hardened gaskets are ALWAYS BAD, but the available gasketry for the Exh and #2 vary greatly in their application. The current white gasket material for the Exh does its job perfectly. It holds the mica diaphragm gently and snugly, allowing the diaphragm to actually vibrate and reproduce lower frequencies. The original #2 gaskets were designed similarly, but with a different execution. The original gasket was a single piece with a molded channel that suspended the diaphragm in a central position, with LITTLE TO NO COMPRESSION on the diaphragm, but providing an air-tight seal. The natural resilience of the rubber held the diaphragm in place will (again), LITTLE to NO pressure. The #2 diaphragm gaskets that are currently available are made out of ⅛" thick foam rubber (neoprene?), and are already 2X as thick as they need to be. Installing them requires effort because you have to forcefully SQUEEZE the "soundbox sandwich" together before installing the screws which hold the body castings together. Under this extreme amount of clamping pressure, the diaphragm is being hindered tremendously, and it will BLAST on loud passages and low notes.

Lastly, the tone arm mounting flange. The original flanges petrify into rock hard rubber from age, and are therefore not functional. Additionally, the replacement flanges are more plasticine than gummy, offering no insulation between the tone arm and the soundbox, and this too will create a reflexive environment where loud passes and low frequencies will create strident blasting and super-loud reproduction.

Victor recordings, the acoustic ones, are very well made and have a very good spectrum of sound recorded on them that we often miss because out reproducers are simply not doing their jobs as designed.

How I fixed the problem:

1. Cut the foam gaskets to ½ thickness, install in reproducer and shim the set with a cut down Edison Diamond Disc gasket (this laborious step will be eliminated when I get newly designed #2 gaskets made <soon>). This eliminates the high clamping pressure, and allows the diaphragm to actually WORK as intended.

2. Adjust the needle bar to a neutral position on the diaphragm, and turn one of the adjustment screws ½ turn to back the needlebar foot off the diaphragm (to create a slight negative preload which will be taken up when the soundbox is lowered onto a recording).

3. Remove the original hardened rubber flange, and remove all of the hardened rubber from the original brass mounting sleeve. Install a loop of Exh white gasket material inside the reproducer back with clear silicone (or black silicone), install the brass mounting sleeve on top of the white gasket material (centered, and make sure it is level, and that the mounting pin is in the correct position). Then, fill in the area around the brass sleeve with more silicone, taking care to level it off with a q-tip with the top lip of the back casting.

Wait 24 hours for the silicone to dry, throw a Loud needle into it, and grab your favourite Caruso acoustic 78rpm disc.

I normally charge $55 for this service, but you can do it yourself with a little patience.

ENJOY!...and fall in love with your Victrola #2 soundbox again!

-Wyatt

Wyatt,

Thanks for the detailed post. In addition to putting silicon and the white gasket in the back of a No. 2 reproducer to create a better seal, I found wax ear plugs to work quite well. You can get these at any drug store for around $4.

I rolled out a thin tub of wax and pressed it around the inside of my No. 2 reproducer close to the diaphragm, but not actually touching. I then put the soundbox back in place on the tonearm. I noticed a difference with electrically recored records. I get much less distortion and a smoother sound.

-Kevin

Thank you very much for that well-written post, MiMo. Now I'm adding a Victor #2 to my list of things to get.

Besides the Exhibition, rebuilt with a glass diaphragm and sounding very clear and wonderful, I've been subsisting with a badly swollen #4 that cannot be rebuilt without destroying: even with its hardened rubber gaskets around the diaphragm it still sounds good with post-1912 acoustics. (For the record, pun intended, I have replaced the #4 tonearm mount gasket which was petrified as you said; subtle but noticeable difference in lower frequencies).

Thanks also for the tip about pre-loading the diaphragm. For some reason that observation escaped me. It won't anymore.

I bought some foam rubber gaskets a few years ago for #2 soundboxes and they worked much better for me. The original gaskets were like the ones you mentioned; twice as thick and hard to get the soundbox together with the result that it did not sound good, but "tinny" to me. I wish I could remember where the foam rubber gaskets came from but they have worked really well for me; well enough to redo all the ones that I had rebuilt previously "-)

Ron Sitko sells the really nice foam rubber gaskets, they are much better than the ones he used to have years ago. I re-rebuilt all of my old #2s with them last year and they make a huge difference.

Sean

I think I got them from a supplier as I bought probably over 200 of them. Ron is definitely a good supplier; he even had parts for an old Edison belt drive Diamond Disc as best as I remember

To remove a hardened or misshapen #2 isolator strip the reproducer and clamp it face down to your workbench. Heat the metal back with a paint stripping gun. It will get hot and begin to smoke. Fish out the isolator with a hooked wire, like clothes hanger wire. After the remaining bits of rubber are easily removed with a knife it's ready for a new isolator.