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Yesterday I spotted two Horn gramophones with Victrola metal plates in Beijing. Both were of a similar design except that one had a heavy horn made of copper and the other had a tin horn painted in red. The wooden boxes, back brackets and tone arms of the two gramophones were of very fine quality. Certainly they were not of crapophone class. And I judged them as of Frankenphone category.

I wanted to see the motors inside them but a sudden dust storm followed by heavy rain made me run for the shelter. By the time I returned the shop was closed.

I will invite your views about these machines.
Best regards
Sheraz

Unfortunately these are crap made from scraps....

No authenthic Victor horn machine would have a "Victrola" ID plate. Also, the back bracket shown in the fifth picture is something like a Pathé part, not Victor, although it doesn't really look quite right for Pathé, either; maybe a knockoff. Tonearms and reproducers also are wrong to be Victor open horn production. The boxes, particularly the mahogany one, look new to me. And whatever that thing is sitting next to the one with the red horn in the first photo does not inspire much confidence in the kind of wares on offer in the shop. Frankenphones at best, I'd say, possibly a mix of new and old components.

A good reference site is http://victor-victrola.com/ (Comprehensive list of almost all Victrola models -- http://victor-victrola.com/new_page_2.htm )

The term "Victrola" was used for inside horn models manufactured by the Victor Talking Machine Co. It was never applied to any outside horn model with the exception of the the Victrola School Model (VV-XXV) which had a Victrola type lid and a removable outside horn.

In other words, if you see the term Victrola slapped on an outside horn gramophone you can safely bet it's a fake designed to deceive.

Hope this helps.
OrthoFan

Thank you colleagues for your expert opinions. Despite its dubious identity, this gramophone is a very interesting machine. I played a record and it worked very well.

Look at the curvaceous long tube of the copper horn and the tone arm, both beautifully sink in the neck of the back bracket . The sound box is unknown but looks solid. The only design oddity is the back bracket which does not match with the over all proportions of the pipes connected to it. The freshly polished mahogany box is beautifully crafted and polished. This is definitely a Frankenphone combining components borrowed from some off market brand and Pathé. Someone really worked hard in imagining and manufacturing the Victrola plate, which gives the machine an authentic look.

The other one in an oak case with fading polish and discoloured tin horn looked quite old. But both had similar Victrola plate.

The asking prices for the machine was USD 600 and the vendor was only willing to offer a 10 percent discount.

$50 USD would be too much.
The other one is a truly bizarre plumbing creation...

OrthoFan wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 1:51 pm A good reference site is http://victor-victrola.com/ (Comprehensive list of almost all Victrola models -- http://victor-victrola.com/new_page_2.htm )

Ortho Fan ! My gratitude . Thank you
Best regards
Sheraz

Curt A wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 4:02 pm $50 USD would be too much.
The other one is a truly bizarre plumbing creation...

Screenshot 2024-05-31 at 3.56.47 PM.png

Hi Curt A

While respecting and agreeing to your comments, I want to point out that every unique object in the market looks for a buyer and there is always a potential buyer somewhere who would come to buy it one day. The vendor always believes in it. Take the example of this machine, I know that any who loves collecting unique and rare copper artefacts will not hesitate buying its horn alone for USD 200.

Had I owned a gramophone museum, I would have loved to buy and preserve this machine as one of the best specimens of Frankenphone. It is not a Victrola but it very creatively imagines how a Victrola should have been.

I am going to discuss the other gramophone, which you refer to as a bizarre plumbing creation, in another note to this Forum.

Best regards
Sheraz

No authentic Victor horn machine would have a "Victrola" ID plate.

You are 99.9% correct. The only Victrola with an outside horn is the VV-XXV which is the school machine with oak horn.

Jerry B.

The real shame is that this junk gets made up in the first place. It consumes precious natural resources.

Garret