The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Greetings.... Can somebody point me to a previous thread if this has already been asked? I did a keyword search and was coming up with really random stuff, LOL.

Issue:

I have acquired a few Victrolas and Phonographs over the past couple of years that appear to be running fine until I set the reproducer down and attempt to play a record. Then, within about 10 seconds, the record slows to a stop. Obviously, I wind it back up but common sense dictates that I better stop winding before I go too far.... I release the brake, it runs like a champ, then the same thing occurs, once I attempt to play a record, I slows to a stop. I even just received a motor back that an "acquaintance" had rebuilt and the same thing happened...

Apart from the obvious, bad records, needles, etc. - is there something else that should be addressed? I have one Brunswick that does this, one Grafonola, and even a Victrola X. All tone arms appear to be "free" and loose - no stiff joints or pot metal. Do y'all think I am being too easy and just winding them enough?

I am more into the "history" of these pieces than the mechanical aspect, so y'all help me out a little...

You should wind it up completely and run the springs start to end when playing records, letting them down completely when you finish your session. That's what they were made for..

Every motor has its own different strength, depending first of all on the power of the springs by design, but also depending on its lubrication status (springs, gears and governor, which is the main part to look at in these cases) and wear condition.

It has to be stated clearly that, if the records are really clean and really well cared (and possibly waxed), and on the other side the gramophone is really fully rehauled to state-of-the-art, all gramophones will be able to play all records.

If the records are not cured to state-of-the-art, and/or the gramophone is not really fully rehauled but just "lubricated" (or it is worn out beyond repair), then indeed some machines will play some records, while another will eventually play others.

If you're relatively sure that the gramophones you mention are in good shape, then the issue is with the records. I suggest you carefully wash those that don't play, and then polish them with ibota wax. The difference will be ABYSMAL, as you will be able to see by yourself in this clip. The ibota wax can be purchased by fellow Orchorsol on this board (link to his website).

As a final note, I agree with Inigo that gramophones can be fully winded without concerns (taking care not to overwind them, though), however a gramophone in good shape shall be able to play at least the inner grooves of a well cared record even with the last spirals of its springs.

Inigo wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:36 pm You should wind it up completely and run the springs start to end when playing records, letting them down completely when you finish your session. That's what they were made for..

It is good practice to let the motor run down after a record session, but not completely, otherwise there is a risk that the end of the spring may become detached.

epigramophone wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:15 am It is good practice to let the motor run down after a record session, but not completely, otherwise there is a risk that the end of the spring may become detached.

My personal takes on this matter are that the tail of the spring is virtually impossible to disengage, as when the motor is run down, all of the pressure of dozens and dozens if iron spirals is exerted over the tail. I challenge anyone to detach the tail under these conditions.

As for the head of the spring, in most cases it is necessary to hammer the central spindle in order to get it detached (and even in the remote case, most if not all designs are self-engaging anyway).

So I always let my gramophones run down completely.

It's certainly not uncommon to experience weak spings. However, since you experience this in multiple machines, I'd say that the common denominator is... you. I think that maybe you're not winding enough. I'm not a huge fan of winding a 100 year old spring to the "end", but going further than you've been, might be a good test.

epigramophone wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:15 am

Inigo wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:36 pm You should wind it up completely and run the springs start to end when playing records, letting them down completely when you finish your session. That's what they were made for..

It is good practice to let the motor run down after a record session, but not completely, otherwise there is a risk that the end of the spring may become detached.

Agreed.

I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this matter. And, I tend to agree that the issue is probably me... LOL I "know" I am probably too gentle with these things and probably never wind them enough. I will try to muster up the courage and wind them a little further and see if I can get a little more power out of them - at least enough to track through an entire song/record.

Thanks!

Don't worry about winding them, they aren't fragile like a pocket watch. Just stop when you feel strong resistance...