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Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:37 pm
by AmberolaAndy
Looking at marketplace on Facebook I spotted a machine with a cabinet that looked almost a cabinet to a victor machine… then if you look closer the keyholes are missing and a brand name “White House” shows up and the typical universal off brand hardware is revealed.
What off-brands had you almost fooled for a second thinking it was a larger brand machine?
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:31 am
by edisonplayer
I wonder if the Victor company sued them? edisonplayer.
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:53 am
by Granby
Agreed! Most off brands sported an attractive "grille" throughout the late teens and early 1920's. However, I have noticed a few models [like the one you have pictured] with doors that cover the internal horn opening which immediately makes all of us think VICTOR. When I have seen these, in my travels, I am sure it is a VV-80 or VV-100 from across the room... until I get closer and I can only then see it is an off brand.... I do not have my notes right here at my fingertips, but either Victor's patent expired [referring to the doors over the grille opening] or the off brand companies just got "bold" at the beginning of the 1920's..... LOL
I'll defer to my fellow collectors for more input and the finer details....
Oh, I almost forgot to cite a specific example.... I was sure I was standing in front of a VV-100 or like model at an antique shop. I opened the lid and realized it was a STARR Phonograph. Wow! Sure enough, when I opened the doors in front of the internal horn, there was the unique Starr internal horn. It had me fooled!
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:58 am
by JerryVan
Granby wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:53 am
...or the off brand companies just got "bold" at the beginning of the 1920's..... LOL
I'll defer to my other fellow collectors' for input and the finer details....
I think the off-brand companies may have figured that they would go unnoticed by Victor, being such small-time players and a lot of times operating/selling within very limited markets.
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:27 pm
by Benjamin_L
When the door and gooseneck patent expired for Victor in the early 1920s (between 1921-1923) dozen of off-brands started using them. Starr, Kimberly, Playertone, just to name a few.
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:00 pm
by Curt A
edisonplayer wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:31 am
I wonder if the Victor company sued them? edisonplayer.
They will now that you plastered this all over the internet...
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:57 pm
by JeffR1
Curt A wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:00 pm
edisonplayer wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:31 am
I wonder if the Victor company sued them? edisonplayer.
They will now that you plastered this all over the internet...

Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:12 pm
by FredSugarHall_fan
Not sure if this is the case here, but I wonder if the company just bought this from Victor, made a few modifications, and then slapped their logo on the machine.
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:25 am
by epigramophone
FredSugarHall_fan wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:12 pm
Not sure if this is the case here, but I wonder if the company just bought this from Victor, made a few modifications, and then slapped their logo on the machine.
This certainly happened in the UK. HMV sold obsolete Library Bijou Grand models to Perophone. Fifty years ago I saw one of these Perophones in an antique shop in North Devon. The price was £100, but I did not buy it as it was riddled with woodworm.
Here is the original HMV, surely one of their more attractive cabinet styles.
Re: Off brands that look a little too close to name brands in appearance…
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:02 am
by pianolist
I would guess this was a store brand sold by The White House in San Fransisco? I have a VE10-35 changer with a White House badge on the inside, for where it was sold.