The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Just bought this really cheap and it was shipped to me in a box with no padding! (I got a 100% refund.)

Questions:

1. The bottom edge of the tone arm is broken off in four spots. I haven’t checked it the pieces can be fit back together to complete the puzzle, but if they do, do you think it’s worthwhile to use JB weld to hold them together?

2. Once that is fixed, is there a diagram anywhere about how to secure the tone arm to the interior horn? I see the mount is riveted to the motorboard so I’m not sure how I can connect it with access to only one side.

3. What is the v-shaped piece? Is that the lift mechanism for the lid?

4. Note that the needle mount is dislodged from its pivots on the sound box. It looks like I can just adjust the screws and set it back. Am I wrong?

5. Anybody know what model this is? I can’t find a comparable photo anywhere online. (Did I just get a free frankenphone?)

Thanks all!
Mark

mrbechet wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:58 am Just bought this really cheap and it was shipped to me in a box with no padding! (I got a 100% refund.)

mrbechet wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:58 am
Questions:

1. The bottom edge of the tone arm is broken off in four spots. I haven’t checked it the pieces can be fit back together to complete the puzzle, but if they do, do you think it’s worthwhile to use JB weld to hold them together?

2. Once that is fixed, is there a diagram anywhere about how to secure the tone arm to the interior horn? I see the mount is riveted to the motorboard so I’m not sure how I can connect it with access to only one side.

3. What is the v-shaped piece? Is that the lift mechanism for the lid?

4. Note that the needle mount is dislodged from its pivots on the sound box. It looks like I can just adjust the screws and set it back. Am I wrong?

5. Anybody know what model this is? I can’t find a comparable photo anywhere online. (Did I just get a free frankenphone?)

Thanks all!
Mark

I would not try repairing the tone arm. A repair in a high stress area is not likely to be successful or long lasting. That arm is very common. I have a war-time-era Canadian-made RCA Victor portable assembled partially from Birch parts. It has the same arm albeit with a different finish. You should be able to find another arm or dead machine with an intact arm.

The base of the arm (annoyingly) will (most likely) be mounted with bifurcated rivets -- machine made fast and cheap with no thought given to future service.

So you need to find a way to get the motor board, the deck of the machine, loose from the case so that you can have a look at things from underneath. Shine a light through hole where the crank goes in to make sure there isn't a press-fit metal tube inserted as a crank shaft guide; if there is one it might need to be extracted to avoid damaging anything inside when taking the motor board out. Go carefully. The horn on this machine might be pressed paper pulp or papier-mâché and is probably attached to the motor board, easily damaged.

I do not know what the V-shaped mechanism is. Your guess that it might be a lid stay to hold the lid open is not a bad one. Is there anywhere that it might have been attached to the lid and lower case/motor board?

It could also be linkage for a brake mechanism or speed control--who knows? Remove the retaining clip from the spindle and lift the platter off.

As for the sound box/reproducer, the round thing on the end of the arm, you should take it off the arm. There is probably only one screw securing it. Then remove the protective screen on the face of it; there will probably be three screws securing it. You will then be able to see clearly what damage has been done. If the needle chuck is off at such a strange angle, the arm that goes up from it may have been ripped loose from the reproducer's diaphragm or it may have been broken. If the reproducer has an aluminium diaphragm, it is a surprisingly good reproducer rather an absolutely good reproducer (if you understand the difference ). But if the diaphragm is ripped or the needle bar arm is broken, it is probably not worth fixing. Again the arm and reproducer are quite common.

Does the motor run well? Can you wind it up fully, to the point where it starts to offer resistance? Does it make clunking noises during winding or running out? Does make a lot of mechanical noise? How long does it run on full wind?

My best guess is that from a financial point of view, the machine is a write off.

From the point of view of just having fun and damn the minor expenses incurred in repair/restoration .... well that is an entirely different matter, isn't it?

Check this out. It's another current topic with regard to the same tone arm assembly and many of the issues you have.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=58433

Check this out, a decent condition Birch rebadging machine in WA for $60 US. Looks in nice condition.

https://olympic.craigslist.org/for/d/ca ... 41835.html

Thanks for the info!

Unfortunately, I fear that this is a total loss and not worth the repairs.

First, the end of the tone arm has four pieces broken off, and while I can fit them together I doubt they’d be strong enough when reglued to stay that way. In addition, the metal horn is riveted to the motorboard and I don’t think I can get my hand inserted far enough to be able to reinsert the c-clip that holds the tonearm in its mount.

I took the reproducer apart and the needle bar is bent. That’s an easy fix but it’s torn away from the diaphragm, which is riveted to the inside of the reproducer, so I have to replace the entire piece as one unit. (Note that the reproducer was assembled and then painted: there is spray paint on the diaphragm!) This is in addition to replacing the gasket.

The motor does work but I didn’t test the speed. I’m sure I could get that working fine but I think the other issues outweigh a repair.

Mark

mrbechet wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:55 pm Thanks for the info!

Most welcome. Please stay with the hobby and come back. The more, the merrier.

mrbechet wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:55 pm The metal horn is riveted to the motorboard and I don’t think I can get my hand inserted far enough to be able to reinsert the c-clip that holds the tonearm in its mount.

Take an electric drill with a metal bit smaller than the heads of the rivets, about the same size or smaller than the shaft of the rivets, and drill the centres out of the rivet heads (only). The rivets should come apart, freeing te horn.

mrbechet wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:55 pm I took the reproducer apart and the needle bar is bent. That’s an easy fix but it’s torn away from the diaphragm, which is riveted to the inside of the reproducer, so I have to replace the entire piece as one unit. (Note that the reproducer was assembled and then painted: there is spray paint on the diaphragm!) This is in addition to replacing the gasket.

Yes, it sounds as if the reproducer is toast.

mrbechet wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:55 pm The motor does work but I didn’t test the speed.

If the motor works without too much noise, it is probably worth keeping. What make is the motor? The motor in my RCA Victor (Birch) is a General Jr. which is quite a decent and robust motor for a portable.

mrbechet wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:55 pm Unfortunately, I fear that this is a total loss and not worth the repairs. ..... I think the ... issues outweigh a repair.

True, maybe, but again the arm and reproducer can be replaced. Birch machines were very, very common. And there are third-party replacement reproducers floating around, too--the thickness of the rubber strip that forms the throat gasket can be changed to accomodate a different reproducer.

And even if repair is outweighed, perhaps salvage is not. Is your case in good cosmetic condition? Portable cases are notorious for having received the worst of abuse and neglect. Good cases are not without value.
Your record holder is intact; these are often damaged and missing. Your handle looks good, as do the clasps and hinges. If your motor is good, it is not without value. People are often looking for parts. If you stay with the hobby and join APS (or CAPS) and stay here, you will enter a community of friendly and helpful (well maybe a bit crusty seeming at times but still friendly and helpful) people. Resources will open up to you. And you in turn can help others.