The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Get the latest auction catalog for this auction. Auctions by Stanton's have always been interesting and even though a bit of a "hike" from Seattle I have attended several and found success. Lots of wonderful and interesting items have made their way to the block over the past few auctions but one this month features a very interesting lot. Focus on the Phonautograph listing. Story, the machine was in the collection of Dr. Drake of Martinsville Indiana as I remember. His sale of the collection transfered title to a European buyer (as reported) who elected to price items in the collection before shipment to Europe and if they sold at that price then fine the buyer got the item. If no sale at the placed price then the item was shipped to Europe. The Phonautogaph was reportly sold for $17,000 to the current owner.
Fast forward to today. Is it the real deal or a reproduction (maybe a very old reproduction) or a variation of the real deal and of the time period of 1857-1870?? Apparently the lines are drawn and the experts have rendered numerous opinions. Stanton had been cautioned about the use of all original and will report that the item is as is where is and for bidders they need to do their homework which, in my opinion, is the correct answer. Since none of these machines have appeared in the auction circut in recent history (of many years) then what to do. Several experts agree the outside of the "recording horn" appears to be restored but the plaster inside of the horn looks very original and very old. Correct patina on the metal parts further creates the mystery.

Is the "dance" of not original not historic("not not this but that") really what is being done to scare folks away so the major players can buy for bargain or is it possibly a later original but a partially restored "real deal"??? After reading Wyatt's recent find wonderful article in this website re the Class M, I pause on this one. Take a chance?? We will know soon.
LH


Af

I am eagerly awaiting word on final prices from the auction, which is ending today. I have heard, however, that the closing price on the phonautograph was about $8K.

That would be the steal of the century if it were legitimate. But it is unquestionably a replica. I am 99.9% convinced it was made by Norm Solgas in Sacramento, who advertised it extensively in 1980. It's based on a very famous engraving and whoever the maker was, he was careful to copy the general design of the image. However without an actual machine to work from he failed to note some important details. Notably the recording assembly, which was simply left with no stylus since it was not shown clearly in the engraving. Just as significant, the shaft was made with a fine thread, as for a tinfoil. For a phonautograph, with lateral movement of the stylus, it's essential that the thread be very wide to leave room for the tracing to be made on the smoked paper.

There were other details; pine base rather than oak as described by Léon Scott; undersized mandrel when compared to surviving phonautograms and Scott's own notes; hex nuts on the upright supports, etc.

It was a nice looking display piece but Jean-Paul Agnard's replica is more accurate.

Anybody know what the Victor VI with Matching cabinet sold for? Catalog #1608. How about the two Salter Mahogany cabinets (one with a mirror and one without)? Or the two Herzog disc cabinets (one oak and the other mahogany)?

Jeff

Can anybody tell me what the Edison school machine went for? It looked complete and very nice.

unlike the phonograph shows, auction houses will have a record of what the various lots sold for - you may want to try calling stanton's directly. if I remember correctly, they may even print a final prices realized list after the auction.

http://www.stantons-auctions.com/

Stanton's Auctioneers & Realtors
144 South Main St.
P.O. Box 146
Vermontville, MI 49096
Phone: (517) 726 0181
Fax: (517) 726 0060
Email: [email protected]

I think the Victor VI went for over 17K (with premium). It was a great cabinet and a very good machine from what I saw of it.

That sounds correct for the Victor VI and original matching "Cabinet That Matches". It sold for 15,500 + the buyers 10% premium. Stantons is great. I bought a Herzog 820 in Oak from that auction with lots of help from them as an absentee bidder, and on delivery cross country.

Jeff