The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi all.
Thanks for allowing me to join your very educational forum.
I’ve inherited the attached gramophone from my in-laws, and my wife wants it to be a corner piece of a room.

My plan is to clean and repair it for her. But to do that, I need your help!

I’ve read wd40 would help clean the horn, but would that also remove some of the rust? Should I buffer it with something
What tool(s)/product would you use?

I was hoping not to paint it as I’ll never find a matching colour and it will lose its originality.

The wood (oak?) has wood worm damage which I would have filled with a matching colour wax. Should I lightly sand and varnish or stain the wood?

Any help, even just letting me know what it is, would be greatly appreciated. There’s no logos or writing on any of it..

Many thanks. Kevin

You have a typical Swiss/German machine of pre-1920 design. The motor is a German built Steidinger. In the absence of any other inscriptions on the machine, further identification will be difficult.
The horn is in good original condition, so please do not be tempted to repaint it. WD40 should clean it and stabilise any surface rust. To preserve the finish you could then apply a non-abrasive polish.
I have my doubts about the applied ornament on the front of the case. It looks like a later addition.
Once any woodworm has been dealt with and the holes filled, I usually clean the case with white spirit. If the original finish is in reasonable condition I apply a scratch cover polish of the appropriate shade, leaving it to soak in before buffing it off.
The nickel plated fittings may respond to metal polish. I use Solvol Autosol applied with fine steel wool. Re-plating is expensive.
The machine is only original once and deserves to be kept that way.

A real study case... Looks like a french or German example, maybe British, for the parts it is made of, were of common use among many gramophone makers, as they were exported from factories to all the world for this purpose.
The condition is very good, I wouldn't do ANYTHING to the wood case nor the horn except a little dusting and polishing with a soft wax... There are experts here that will give more advice...
About the oxidation of the metal parts, horn neck, tonearm and support, I don't know what to say. If the oxidation seems dead and consolidated, you could left it as it is. Maybe also little cleaning and polishing. The nickel has gone, this is clear, and further polishing would only remove the loose oxide and leave the bare metal.
What I would advice safely is to service the soundbox, as the mica diaphragm looks tired and broken, and surely the rubber gaskets need replacement. All it easy to do. Probably there is also an external rubber gasket at the back of the soundbox for flexibility of the connection to the tonearm which would likely also need replacement.
The gooseneck of the tonearm could benefit from disassembling, cleaning and oiling of the movable part that slides inside the tonearm mouth, as the oil will soften operation and also help sealing against air leaks, so detrimental for the good sound.
The outside oxidation, as I've said, could be removed, but I would not go too far here, except removing the loose oxide dust, and polishing/waxing the remaining metal with its fixed dark oxidation. Same for the beautiful tonearm support, for a too deep cleaning would remove that aged patina.
I'm on the line of cleaning, servicing and soft polishing, only to preserve the machine with its patina, and making it work properly.
The motor... Just examine it for sluggish operation or noises. You could disassemble, clean and regrease it completely new, but my advice is now less interventionist: examine it for faulty function, noise or dragging, lose of power. But if all sems ok, just a drop of oil on the bearings and the governor leather pad, a dab of grease on the gears, and maybe a spoonful of oil into the spring barrel would help reviving the dried moving parts without no more needs.
In my experience, some motors I've dismantled and thoroughly cleaned, after reassembling and regreasing, were much noisier than before!!! I discovered to may dismay, that some of the old hardened grease adhere to the gears and helps hiding or filling worn out areas, and when you remove all old grease, the faulty gear areas become more evident and make noise that was previously hidden by the old grease.
Looks like a one spring motor, so if it can play a complete 12" side of two, or one and a half, it's good and you don't need to go further.
Others may have different opinions, though, and of course you can do what you want, but I offer this advice here for take or dismiss... Just trying to help. If you do this you'll never ruin the machine, and you'll enjoy greatly playing 78s, as this looks as a very good player. Enjoy it!
For the soundbox overhauling you'll find herein good advice, replacement parts, and if needed, a complete guide along the whole process by all colleagues herein. This is a great bunch of people. Just go slowly, be soft and patient, ask a lot, and send photos of everything you do... and it'll end all well!

Welcome to the forum Kevin.

The horn is really nice and once cleaned a bit of dark wax polish should blend any rust on the rim in. You could even try green or black shoe polish.

The wood is oak. I agree the appliqué (or onlay) to the front of the machine is a recent addition, these are made in China and eBay is flooded with them or variations of them. If you feel that removing it will damage the wood or finish underneath you could stain and wax it to blend in. It might then look more original.

Jamie

Thank you all so much!! for such informative and detailed replies. It put me in a mood to start immediately with the cleaning process.

I started with the horn. Wd40 worked a treat. I don’t think the photos do it justice just how much muck has come off..

I’m not a fan of the front ornament so I will try and remove it safely when I get to it. I can only assume it once replaced the original brand/logo.

I’ve a few bits to buy now thanks to your replies. A needle would be a good start! I’ll try and keep you all updated and there will definitely be questions ahead. Thanks again all.

Remember a needle is one use only! So you’ll need a packet.

The horn is looking really good. I’ve just noticed the back bracket has a nice Art Nouveau design that I have not seen before.

The WD-40 really brought the original paint back to life... congratulations on a very nice find.

Thanks again everyone for all of the information.

Also apologies my photos aren’t rotated. I’m posting on my phone and can’t see the option..

A little update. So I cleaned the wood with swarfega and filled the worm holes with coloured wax. I also used a beeswax furniture polish from Amazon. I’m delighted with how well it’s turned out.
I’ve cleaned and polished the metal parts with autosol as recommended. Some of the nickel came off the gooseneck? But the rest held up well.
Would it be worth spray painting just that neck with nickel paint?
With regards to the motor, if I crank it ½ turn, it starts and then ‘twangs’. I watched a YouTube video about repairing the spring motor but I’ve hit a stumbling block. I can’t see any obvious way to open it and clean/re-grease it. By the looks of the scratches and damage to the metal around the clips? I wasn’t the first one to struggle.

Any tips on how it should open? I’m worried about snapping a screwdriver or a finger!

The wood is looking really good! Personally I wouldn’t paint the tonearm parts as it will look painted probably best to leave as is, original, or have the parts re nickel-plated but they could look new.

The spring barrel lid is fixed with 4 tabs, assuming they are straightened you could try gently tapping these with a hammer.

jamiegramo wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 8:11 am The spring barrel lid is fixed with 4 tabs, assuming they are straightened you could try gently tapping these with a hammer.

Additionally, you could place a piece of wood against the gear/cover and tap the wood with a hammer. The idea is to protect the gear teeth from damage from the hammer. As Jamie stated, "gently tapping".