Black / Shellac Dust On Needle After Playing, Tried Everything

[OddRomanian]

Hello!

I've been having a problem for some time now, and I truly don't know how to fix It.

So, after my first batch of needles I ever had ran out, I bought some from a random eBay seller.

What do I notice? Black dust on the needle after playing.

You could argue that the dust was always there and that I didn't notice in my previous needles, but I always wiped my needles after playback and never saw the shellac dust with my previous ones.

You could argue that the records are too new for an acoustic gramophone, but the same records that I played with the previous needles and were fine now leave the shellac dust deposit, regardless of era.

You could argue the needles are bad quality, but I have just bought and received some "soundgen" needles, and they still cause me this problem.

All the needles I've had were brand new soft tone needles, and my machine is an HMV 102B

I'm truly stuck and don't know what else to try.

I've only had this gramophone for a couple months, and all my records have only been played for a couple times.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks in advance!

[FellowCollector]

Noticeable black sediment on a needle after playing an otherwise clean and good playing condition disc record is never normal. If you have never had this sediment after playing your disc records with the former needles you used and nothing has changed regarding the phonograph, the reproducer or its angle when in playing position then the problem is almost certainly with the needles that you recently purchased. Just my opinion.

Doug

[Hoodoo]

There have been reports here on aTMF about poor quality new needles. A magnifying glass or jewellers loup will let you see the condition of the needle tip before you use it. Some new needles are quite poorly made.
Another possibility is that, coincidentally to you purchase of new needles, something has changed on your machine and the tonearm is not pivoting freely, thereby causing the needle to be pressed too hard against the outside face of the record groove.
My guess is that it is bad needles though.
Good luck.

[OrthoFan]

I suspect you were sold some pre-used needles. Take one of the needles out of the pack and look at the tip with a magnifying glass under a lamp or in sunlight. Rotate the needle, and if you see a slight "flash" of light, or flattened area on the tip, then the needle has already been used to play a record, and should not be used again.

[Lah Ca]

Multi-play Needles:
There are so called multi-play steel needles which are designed not to wear down so quickly. They were intended for slightly lighter tracking electrical machines. Some argue, and probably with just concern, that these needles are too hard on older earlier records.

Plated Needles:
There is nothing wrong with good plated needles of any era, but poorly made modern ones can be really bad--and when needles go bad .... . If you examine the tips under a microscope or with a 30x jeweler's loupe, you will probably find that a large number of them have badly malformed tips. There can be a defect rate of 60% or higher, even up to 90%.

Good Needles:
Member Soundgen sells his own needles out of the UK. Pretty much a 0% defect rate here in my experience. Very nice needles, too.

I have also bought from various reputable American online vendors who seem to be careful about what needles they stock and sell, Phonographs.org, the Gramophone Shop, ...

Quality control seems to have been quite good with vintage needles. Every so often (and with increasingly lower frequency) someone will find a bulk cache of needles and market them. I am particularly fond of non-plated vintage steel needles. I like the sound of them.

Needle Magnetism:
Being of ferrous metal, most steel needles are weak magnets, the ends of needles the magnetic poles. If you examine steel needles with a jeweler's loupe, you will often find metal fragments trapped in the needle's magnetic field at the tip. I have an old wine bottle cork that I use to polish needle tips before use. I stick the needle into the cork and give it a few twists before pulling it out and using it. The metal fragments stay trapped, embedded in the cork, and any minor surface corrosion or dirt is usually polished off.

[OddRomanian]

Noticeable black sediment on a needle after playing an otherwise clean and good playing condition disc record is never normal. If you have never had this sediment after playing your disc records with the former needles you used and nothing has changed regarding the phonograph, the reproducer or its angle when in playing position then the problem is almost certainly with the needles that you recently purchased. Just my opinion.

Doug

Thank you!
It's what I've been thinking too, but I truly don't know what other needle to try, Soundgen's needles are supposed to be the best of the best. I'm confused. Maybe It's the records fault? Maybe they have worn down to the point of this happening? I don't know anymore.

[OddRomanian]

There have been reports here on aTMF about poor quality new needles. A magnifying glass or jewellers loup will let you see the condition of the needle tip before you use it. Some new needles are quite poorly made.
Another possibility is that, coincidentally to you purchase of new needles, something has changed on your machine and the tonearm is not pivoting freely, thereby causing the needle to be pressed too hard against the outside face of the record groove.
My guess is that it is bad needles though.
Good luck.

With Soundgen's ones too?

Either way, any troubleshooting tips to help rule out the gramophone's tonearm? I know It isn't the soundbox. Thank you!

[OddRomanian]

I suspect you were sold some pre-used needles. Take one of the needles out of the pack and look at the tip with a magnifying glass under a lamp or in sunlight. Rotate the needle, and if you see a slight "flash" of light, or flattened area on the tip, then the needle has already been used to play a record, and should not be used again.

I'll try, thank you!

[OddRomanian]

Multi-play Needles:
There are so called multi-play steel needles which are designed not to wear down so quickly. They were intended for slightly lighter tracking electrical machines. Some argue, and probably with just concern, that these needles are too hard on older earlier records.

Plated Needles:
There is nothing wrong with good plated needles of any era, but poorly made modern ones can be really bad--and when needles go bad .... . If you examine the tips under a microscope or with a 30x jeweler's loupe, you will probably find that a large number of them have badly malformed tips. There can be a defect rate of 60% or higher, even up to 90%.

Good Needles:
Member Soundgen sells his own needles out of the UK. Pretty much a 0% defect rate here in my experience. Very nice needles, too.

I have also bought from various reputable American online vendors who seem to be careful about what needles they stock and sell, Phonographs.org, the Gramophone Shop, ...

Quality control seems to have been quite good with vintage needles. Every so often (and with increasingly lower frequency) someone will find a bulk cache of needles and market them. I am particularly fond of non-plated vintage steel needles. I like the sound of them.

Needle Magnetism:
Being of ferrous metal, most steel needles are weak magnets, the ends of needles the magnetic poles. If you examine steel needles with a jeweler's loupe, you will often find metal fragments trapped in the needle's magnetic field at the tip. I have an old wine bottle cork that I use to polish needle tips before use. I stick the needle into the cork and give it a few twists before pulling it out and using it. The metal fragments stay trapped, embedded in the cork, and any minor surface corrosion or dirt is usually polished off.

So, if we take into account the needles I have are from Soundgen, can we rule out that It's faulty needles?

Thank you!

[gramophone-georg]

Where are you located? I could send you some new old stock multi play needles to try. If they get the grit as well there is something else going on.

What era/ brand of gramophone and soundbox?