The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

OK....here goes.....a VERY basic question from a still newbie......how do you tell what type of record is appropriate to play on the external horn Victor machines? Or any machine for that matter? I have many 78's....some edison discs, and many others of different sizes and manufacturers. How do you know which were for which generation of machines? Do you go by the material? ie no vinyl with the steel needles? I don't want to ruin any records, and have seen how different records sound so very different on the same machine.

On a sad note.....anybody know how much the Al Jolson "California Here I Come" 78 that I dropped and broke WAS worth???

To start with, NO vinyl or Edisons on a Victor!

The horned (internal or external) machines are acoustic machines, and can play electrics, but they won't sound very good and can possibly over-load the diaphragm on your machine. Stick with acoustic records on your external horn machine. In Victor, these are anything that says Victor Talking Machine or Victrola (the latter are the "bat wing" records). Scrolls, anything with "electric" or "E" or RCA will be inappropriate.

You might want to get a good book on old records and machines. There are several on Amazon or eBay.

Another way to go would be to go onto eBay. Do a search for Enrico Caruso, and you'll see a variety of almost all acoustic records, which would give you an idea what they look like.

Change needles after EACH RECORD!!!!

Or just ship the external horn machine to me! Tell us what moel you have, where you got it, etc. Sounds interesting!

Best of luck,

Nat

In the early days of this forum, there was talk about putting together a label guide. One that would assign date ranges to label types, I know, would be extremely helpful to newbies.

You should be able to play most acoustically recorded type standard "78s" on an outside horn machine. (Can you post a photo of it?) As a general rule, the major record companies began switching over from the acoustic recording process to the electrical recording process starting around mid-1925. (Some of the second tier labels used the acoustic process until the late 1920s.)

Since most records are marked--on the label--with a catalog number you might find this site helpful when trying to pinpoint how old a record might be -- http://www.78discography.com/

For instance, if you find a Victor recording with the number 16501, you'll know that it was recorded in 1910, and was probably pressed and sold shortly thereafter. That would be appropriate to play on an outside horn talking machine. If you found an RCA Victor record with the number 20-7010, which was recorded in 1957, then you would just as soon hit it with a hammer as play it on any type of acoustic phonograph.


HTH,
OF

Just curious, but what label was your Jolson record on?
Prices are completely different here in Oz, but Jolsons Brunswick recordings usually sell for $4 or $5, while the later Decca recordings (mostly from the Jolson movies about his life) sell for $1 or $2.
I still haven't found the early Brunnie recording of California, but I think I've got 4 or 5 copies on Decca. They're extremely common here.

This is a common newbie question, and here's the least confusing answer that I've found. On standard 78s, take a look at the blank area on the outer edge of the record, before the grooves begin. Nearly all records made before 1935 have this area as being completely blank. After 1935, they began using a "lead in" groove in this area that helped propel the needle towards the rest of the grooved area. This practice was carried over into the LP world as well. Those pre-1935 records are for the most part what you want to play on your phonograph.


Al Jolson records are common. He was very popular in his time, and sold many many records. I wouldn't be too worried about it!

The University of California has a great site for information about Victor records at http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.php

You can do a search by a number of different criteria, including the catalog number printed on the record, and it will lead you to info about the record, including the date. Right now they are up to about 1927, but eventually they will have the entire Victor/RCA Victor catalog up to the end of 78 era. A really great resource.

Clay

Thank you everybody. This is very helpful. I actually have two machines....a Victor IV I bought only about two months ago, and a Victor V I've had for about 8 years. The records are simply a pile of records I picked up here, there, and everywhere......which now I know span many many years and types. I never even knew about the term Acoustic Record. Glad to hear about the Al Jolson record being only a few dollars...... Thanks again.

jvic wrote: I never even knew about the term Acoustic Record. Glad to hear about the Al Jolson record being only a few dollars...... Thanks again.

Hi Jeff:

I've been told by some on this site that I have a tendency to overload newbies with information. (So why break with tradition? )

If you're interested, there are a few sites that provide a synopsis of the various recording processes. Wikipedia, of course, but there's also this chestnut, which was one of the first sites on the internet to address this:

http://homepage.mac.com/oldtownman/recording/notes.html

Of course, the Victor Victrola Page -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/ -- also has some information in the "Basics of the Acoustic Phonograph" section of the site.

OF

And this one, which is in 6 parts accessed via the menu on the left-hand side of the webpage:
http://www.birthplaceofcountrymusic.org/node/34

gramophoneshane wrote:Just curious, but what label was your Jolson record on?
Prices are completely different here in Oz, but Jolsons Brunswick recordings usually sell for $4 or $5, while the later Decca recordings (mostly from the Jolson movies about his life) sell for $1 or $2.
I still haven't found the early Brunnie recording of California, but I think I've got 4 or 5 copies on Decca. They're extremely common here.

How about Jolie on a black "patents label" Victor?