Winding pawl on my VV 8-9 not working

[jgsestrich]

I have my grandmother's Victor VV 8-9 that was likely purchased by grandpa back in '28 or '29. I remember listening to it back in the early 60's with the family. But, even then the crank was held by some string tied to a foot. The overall machine is in excellent condition and works perfectly aside from having to tie down the crank. The winding pawl was doing absolutely nothing. I've been poking around for pictures and/or repair docs, but have so far come up empty. Looking for parts lists I found something at https://www.victroladoctor.com/, but those shows many "types" of machine, that are not the same as the overall product.

Might anybody out there know which "type" of drive would be in a VV 8-9? I'm guessing there is a spring missing someplace but I haven't taken things apart far enough to really understand what's in there.

The entire mechanism is coated with nasty black grease -- is that OEM, or might grandpa have tried to do some "maintenance"?

[Hoodoo]

I had the same problem with a Victrola motor, well, maybe, I don’t know if my motor had the same pawl setup as yours, so this may not apply, but the gist of it was that the pawl relies on a certain amount of friction where it pivots to be activated and I had oiled mine. I got it to work by adding a small rubber o-ring to help squeeze the parts together which gave me the friction needed.

[Inigo]

How curious! I thought all the Burton motors were the same, didn't know about existence of different pawl arrangements... My three motors of this type have the same typical C pawl arrangement of the Burton 2 and 4-spring motors; well, could I call this 'typical' with such variety?

[JerryVan]

Yes. The 8-9 has an unusual ratchet arrangement.

[OrthoFan]

The entire mechanism is coated with nasty black grease -- is that OEM, or might grandpa have tried to do some "maintenance"?

It sounds like the entire motor needs a good cleaning and re-lubrication. If this has the original motor (photos would help), then the winding ratchet is pretty straightforward. The "moon shaped gear" (whatever it's called) -- visible in the image posted -- should move freely with the turning of the crank and catch on the adjacent gear's teeth to lock the crank's position in place.

Screenshot 2024-11-20 072709.jpg (46.19 KiB) Viewed 408 times

[jgsestrich]

Well I finally got in there and cleaned off a layer of black gunk -- lots more to be cleaned once I take the motor out of the cabinet. It appears that grandpa attempted to fix the problem with a chunk of spring steel wire. The picture shows the wire on the escapement wheel, but it falls off pretty much immediately when winding. I don't even see the moon shaped gear.

Where do I go to find a part and/or more info?

[jgsestrich]

Upon comparing your pic to mine, I see that my motor is different from yours. My escapement cog is on the crank shaft, not the spring shaft. Other than the hack spring wire, I don't see any part that would hold the crank back.

[JerryVan]

Well I finally got in there and cleaned off a layer of black gunk -- lots more to be cleaned once I take the motor out of the cabinet. It appears that grandpa attempted to fix the problem with a chunk of spring steel wire. The picture shows the wire on the escapement wheel, but it falls off pretty much immediately when winding. I don't even see the moon shaped gear.

Where do I go to find a part and/or more info?

You're missing some critical parts. Yours should look like the arrangement that Hoodoo has shown, above. As I mentioned, the 8-9 uses a unique ratchet style. I'm not sure what other models used the same.

Here is a motor with a ratchet like yours... https://www.ebay.com/itm/145992642379?_ ... R4icsKfpZA

Here's another... https://www.ebay.com/itm/126618205444?_ ... R4qcsKfpZA

One more... https://www.ebay.com/itm/126746096994?_ ... R5zY26fpZA

[jgsestrich]

JerryVan-- I agree that the pic hoodoo posted looks like my motor, as near as I can tell, and that I'm missing several parts. Thanks for the ebay pointers; That is an interesting way to figure this out-- some sellers post enough pictures that I can sort of see how these are put together and somewhat about how the different models are designated. Finding applicable motors seems to be the trick though... None of your links mention VV 8-9

I'm still curious about all the black grease. I take it that the motor didn't come from the factor covered in such a mess? I guess somebody thought some grease is good, more is better?!?!

[JerryVan]

JerryVan-- I agree that the pic hoodoo posted looks like my motor, as near as I can tell, and that I'm missing several parts. Thanks for the ebay pointers; That is an interesting way to figure this out-- some sellers post enough pictures that I can sort of see how these are put together and somewhat about how the different models are designated. Finding applicable motors seems to be the trick though... None of your links mention VV 8-9

I'm still curious about all the black grease. I take it that the motor didn't come from the factor covered in such a mess? I guess somebody thought some grease is good, more is better?!?!

They don't need to mention an 8-9. These motors were clearly used in other models. These are the ratchet types that you need. If you were to purchase one of these motors, (which I must admit, are a bit pricey), you could use the ratchet parts to fix your motor, or perhaps use the new motor as-is, depending upon its condition. I'm not guessing here, I own an 8-9 myself.

As to the grease, these motors are not neat & tidy things. After 100 years, grease and oil run and melt, old grease oozes out, well meaning folks slather motors with even more lube, etc. What I'm saying is, it's kind of normal in a motor that has not been serviced in a long time. If you were to disassemble the motor, it could be nicely cleaned and relubed. That's not necessarily a bad idea. On the other hand, simply being messy is not detrimental to the motor as long as gears and bearings are lubricated.