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Thanks to Andy of BCN who kindly sent me some needles for my ever-growing collection, including ones I'd never heard of, for example this lovely Red Davey (EMG) bamboo fibre.
Here it is under the microscope, a focus stack of over 400 images in the second picture, The third picture is a close up of the playing point.
Iain

Great photo! It is hard to fathom that bee hive tracking a record groove - and even producing any sound.

CarlosV wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:12 pm Great photo! It is hard to fathom that bee hive tracking a record groove - and even producing any sound.

Thanks! I'll play a couple of records and see what the playing tip (top left) looks like then.

This promises interesting things...!

Fascinating and fabulous again, many thanks Iain. EMG Red Daveys are the Rolls-Royce of bamboo fibre needles - no others come close in sound quality (except green Astras which some of us believe were the same except for the colour), so this is important work!

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:18 pm EMG Red Daveys are the Rolls-Royce of bamboo fibre needles - no others come close in sound quality (except green Astras which some of us believe were the same except for the colour), so this is important work!

What would discriminate the Daveys from the competitors? the type of bamboo? the coating (if they utilized any)? I understand that thorn needle quality is highly dependent on coating, type of thorn and other manufacturing variations, but I was under the impression that bamboos were less so. Some years ago someone advertised needles made from an aged Japanese bamboo that was supposedly superior to the others: I bought a set of these needles but could not find any difference whether in build quality or in sound comparing to other bamboo needles I had.

IainP1 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:18 pm
Thanks! I'll play a couple of records and see what the playing tip (top left) looks like then.

That will be very enlightening, as you did with the thorn needle!

CarlosV wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:30 am

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:18 pm EMG Red Daveys are the Rolls-Royce of bamboo fibre needles - no others come close in sound quality (except green Astras which some of us believe were the same except for the colour), so this is important work!

What would discriminate the Daveys from the competitors? the type of bamboo? the coating (if they utilized any)? I understand that thorn needle quality is highly dependent on coating, type of thorn and other manufacturing variations, but I was under the impression that bamboos were less so. Some years ago someone advertised needles made from an aged Japanese bamboo that was supposedly superior to the others: I bought a set of these needles but could not find any difference whether in build quality or in sound comparing to other bamboo needles I had.

I found the same with the superior type of bamboo Carlos, I didn't find any significant difference in performance.

Red Daveys - nobody knows for sure - if only we knew exactly how EMG treated them! They also offered "white" bamboos as a lesser product, and at a certain point in time their sales listings noted those as "unoiled" - so by implication, probably the red ones were "oiled" in some way - but I'm certain they were also treated chemically, probably with an oxidising agent, possibly with Gum Arabic as well, by some well-optimised process. The photomicrographs do appear to confirm a serious treatment of some kind penetrating at least slightly into the interior.

I'm always very hesitant to say anything that actually "sings the praises" of BCNs myself, but to my ears, EMG red Daveys are the only bamboo fibre needle that equals (or even exceeds*) BCNs' performance.

* I know of one avid EMG/Expert enthusiast who prizes red Daveys above all others, and habitually uses them to play many records, even at the extreme collector prices they can fetch.

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:18 pm Fascinating and fabulous again, many thanks Iain. EMG Red Daveys are the Rolls-Royce of bamboo fibre needles - no others come close in sound quality (except green Astras which some of us believe were the same except for the colour), so this is important work!

Excellent! I have a "normal" triangular bamboo needle as well, so will try that under the microscope next, to see how it compares in structure to this one, then will play both and compare the tips under the scope after use.
Iain

Orchorsol wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:28 am
I'm always very hesitant to say anything that actually "sings the praises" of BCNs myself, but to my ears, EMG red Daveys are the only bamboo fibre needle that equals (or even exceeds*) BCNs' performance.

* I know of one avid EMG/Expert enthusiast who prizes red Daveys above all others, and habitually uses them to play many records, even at the extreme collector prices they can fetch.

As you know, I greatly appreciate that you are manufacturing the BCNs, as for me they are the best needles to be utilized on gramophones, both in terms of sound and wear to records. I never tried a red Davey, but I stopped using bamboo needles after a consistently discouraging experience with them, mainly their excessive wear - most hardly reach the end of a 10 inch record - and too soft sound volume, besides not being compatible with most soundboxes due to the triangular shape.