The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The thread about the unmarked Columbia BV client machine raised a question. Did Sears call most any machine, either disc or cylinder, an Oxford or Oxford Junior? Was that just a Sears label? What did other large mail order companies call their machines?

Thanks, Jerry B.

Yes, that was Sears' brand name. Possibly Harvard as well. (Makes sense, given the college theme.) I believe Montgomery Ward used the name Thornward. Others can/will confirm.

AFAIK Montgomery Ward machines and records were Lakeside (early), then Cecilian, then Airline.

gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 1:55 am AFAIK Montgomery Ward machines and records were Lakeside (early), then Cecilian, then Airline.

Thanks Georg. I was hoping someone would double check my "Thornward" statement.

JerryVan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:25 am

gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 1:55 am AFAIK Montgomery Ward machines and records were Lakeside (early), then Cecilian, then Airline.

Thanks Georg. I was hoping someone would double check my "Thornward" statement.

Apparently, for a short time -- https://www.intertique.com/ThornwardID.html

Also, the brand was not limited to phonographs -- https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Montg ... Dandy.html

OrthoFan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:06 am

JerryVan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:25 am

gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 1:55 am AFAIK Montgomery Ward machines and records were Lakeside (early), then Cecilian, then Airline.

Thanks Georg. I was hoping someone would double check my "Thornward" statement.

Apparently, for a short time -- https://www.intertique.com/ThornwardID.html

Also, the brand was not limited to phonographs -- https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Montg ... Dandy.html

Perhaps I've been redeemed?!

JerryVan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:55 am

OrthoFan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:06 am

JerryVan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:25 am

Thanks Georg. I was hoping someone would double check my "Thornward" statement.

Apparently, for a short time -- https://www.intertique.com/ThornwardID.html

Also, the brand was not limited to phonographs -- https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Montg ... Dandy.html

Perhaps I've been redeemed?!

I intended to research this today. I was employed by MW in the 70s and am sort of an historian on it a little but had never heard of the Thornward brand. But the name combo seemed plausible and it ain't like JerryVan to say something out of left field.

gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:14 pm

JerryVan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:55 am

OrthoFan wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:06 am

Apparently, for a short time -- https://www.intertique.com/ThornwardID.html

Also, the brand was not limited to phonographs -- https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Montg ... Dandy.html

Perhaps I've been redeemed?!

I intended to research this today. I was employed by MW in the 70s and am sort of an historian on it a little but had never heard of the Thornward brand. But the name combo seemed plausible and it ain't like JerryVan to say something out of left field.

Jerry, you are correct. Columbia did build a Thornward cylinder machine for Montgomery Ward ca. 1901 as shown in Howard Hazelcorn's Columbia Phonograph Companion vol. 1 which also includes a note on the origin of the name. As far as I know, that was the only use of the name.

Here's the earlier Thornward decal as it appeared in The Talking Machine Compendium (1997). The authors got the 1897 date wrong.
Here's the later decal as shown in Discovering Antique Phonographs (2000). The date was almost right.
Finally, in the March 2008 issue of the APS magazine, an article appeared which examined Montgomery-Ward's earliest talking machine offerings, and correctly established the date of the Thornward's introduction as Spring/Summer 1901. Sometimes research takes years.

George P.