The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

A lot of non original disc machines, many described as "HMV early 1900's". Strange that the only original HMV base achieved only a fraction of the crapophone. One would think that a person spending 1300 euro on a machine would do some due diligence. (commissions were 25 to 30%). Photo quality was also wanting. A few common cylinder phonographs were reasonably priced.

The star of the selection was an original brass horn for a coin-op but on a crapo base, at 1000 hammer (so about 1250), it was double the price of one a year ago in Germany.

I can post more of the items if interested. here a sample!

Well the "tripod" frankenphone has some attractiveness, I have to admit!

Your floor / carpet under it may get some oil stains

Is there a link to the sale please?

Steve wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 6:23 am Is there a link to the sale please?

Is this any good ?

https://ostantix-auctions.com/ostantix- ... catalogue/

PDF of sale items here :

https://ostantix-auctions.com/wp-conten ... y-2025.pdf

or here: starts at the first phonograph lot.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/19 ... ked-zirato

My impression was that the first lot was also a modern creation trying to be a Pathé Jeaunesse (1906) - any thoughts?

BTW, the manufacture of the motor / arm is IRATO, not Zirato, Irato was founded around 1920 by Theodor Zornig in Berlin (Phonozeitschrift founded 1900, so 20th edition 1920 or 1921)

Sidewinder wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 5:04 pm
My impression was that the first lot was also a modern creation trying to be a Pathé Jeaunesse (1906) - any thoughts?

It does not look like a modern creation to me, but we would need to look inside, and also to the hardware on top to make a more informed assessment. There were some models made in Germany that preceded the French Jeunesse and look similar, with the horn bell showing under the plinth.

Flipping though the catalogue, I think the auction was not exactly a crapophone extravaganza: all phonographs and portables were legitimate as well as most disc machines , although in some there were mismatches between horn and body. Even in better known auctions, like Brekker in Koln, every now and then some frankenphones creep up promoted as legitimate. And the tripod of this one was listed as dating from the sixties: given the popularity of this kind of furniture today, it was probably the star of the auction, with bidders not caring if it was a fake or not.

CarlosV wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 7:33 am

It does not look like a modern creation to me, but we would need to look inside, and also to the hardware on top to make a more informed assessment. There were some models made in Germany that preceded the French Jeunesse and look similar, with the horn bell showing under the plinth.

You mean the Hymnophone from ca 1903-1905 (advert below)

The question is why would a company formed in around 1920 make a "hommage" to a configuration that was passe a decade and a half before? I agree, a personal inspection is best.

By crapophone we usually mean a disc machine with a horn.The cylinder phonographs were good and achieved reasonable prices, as I mentioned.

To focus on the disc players with horns (that could be in a crapophone category)

Lot 160 : Intona
Lot 161 : An antique phonograph with wooden horn and pewter decoration, circa 1900
Lot 164 : phonograph with red and black patinated horn by CHANTAL,
Lot 166 : HMV GOOD
Lot 167 : antique phonograph with wooden horn by His Master's Voice,
Lot 169 : Phrynis (kind of OK)
Lot 173 : phonograph with a polished brass horn and cut glass mount
Lot 175 : large antique phonograph with green patinated brass horn,
Lot 176 : Imposing and large antique phonograph with polished brass lyre-decorated horn,
Lot 178 : phonograph by His Master's Voice with red and black patinated horn
Lot 179 : antique phonograph with floral-decorated wooden horn
Lot 181 : tripod gramophone,

Lets share some knowledge. What would be the individual assessment as to these 12 lots?

Sidewinder wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 10:12 am
Lot 160 : Intona
Lot 161 : An antique phonograph with wooden horn and pewter decoration, circa 1900
Lot 164 : phonograph with red and black patinated horn by CHANTAL,
Lot 166 : HMV GOOD
Lot 167 : antique phonograph with wooden horn by His Master's Voice,
Lot 169 : Phrynis (kind of OK)
Lot 173 : phonograph with a polished brass horn and cut glass mount
Lot 175 : large antique phonograph with green patinated brass horn,
Lot 176 : Imposing and large antique phonograph with polished brass lyre-decorated horn,
Lot 178 : phonograph by His Master's Voice with red and black patinated horn
Lot 179 : antique phonograph with floral-decorated wooden horn
Lot 181 : tripod gramophone,

Lets share some knowledge. What would be the individual assessment as to these 12 lots?

My take:
161 fake
164 genuine
166 genuine
167 fake
169 genuine, mismatched horn
173 machine looks genuine, fake horn
175 machine looks genuine, horn is genuine but the neck may be cobbled up
176 machine looks suspicious,. horn is genuine
178 genuine
179 fake
181 the obscure Tripodophone, a unique piece hand-made in 1955 by a bored master craftsman.