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Just imagine how much more striking it would appear if someone had taken a lightly dampened cloth and wiped all the dust and dirt off it before taking a photo.

Does the Melba have exactly the same tonearm as the Senior Monarch ("gingerbread" case)?

Yes the same tonearm and back bracket as the Senior Monarch. The 10 inch turntable machines have a slightly longer bracket although the tone arm is the same size for all UK 10 inch and 12 inch machines, not counting the 10 inch turntable Victor Monarchs.

The biggest problem with this case is the missing pillars, unless someone in Germany is making them.

jamiegramo wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:24 pm Yes the same tonearm and back bracket as the Senior Monarch. The 10 inch turntable machines have a slightly longer bracket although the tone arm is the same size for all UK 10 inch and 12 inch machines, not counting the 10 inch turntable Victor Monarchs.

Thanks for confirming. I ask because there is a considerable underhang on my Sheraton B; the needle point does not get close to the spindle but falls someway short. Is this common on Senior Monarchs?

Steve wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:29 am

jamiegramo wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:24 pm Yes the same tonearm and back bracket as the Senior Monarch. The 10 inch turntable machines have a slightly longer bracket although the tone arm is the same size for all UK 10 inch and 12 inch machines, not counting the 10 inch turntable Victor Monarchs.

Thanks for confirming. I ask because there is a considerable underhang on my Sheraton B; the needle point does not get close to the spindle but falls someway short. Is this common on Senior Monarchs?

No that shouldn’t happen the bracket of the Sheraton B belongs to a smaller base or 10 inch turntable machine. You can measure the projected distance of the back bracket on your style No. 7 assuming that is correct and the needle meets the spindle. You should find it is about ¾ inch shorter than the Sheraton B.

The photo shows the 2 sizes. The bracket on the right is the correct size for 12 inch turntable Monarchs. The one on the left is 10 inch turntable size and is longer. Note the tonearm remain the same size.

That's very interesting. Thanks, Jamie. So when "HMG" states that in all technical details the special models were identical to the Senior Monarch, that is not strictly correct?

The Sheraton B has triple spring motor and 12" turntable the same as the Senior and yet it shares a back-bracket with the smaller 10" machines? Is this uniquely strange about the Sheratons or are there other anomalies?

My Sheraton currently has the same identical backbracket as my No. 7 and my Senior Monarch (in terms of physical dimensions) but has the needle underhang. The projection of the bracket would need to be less to bring the tonearm inwards so needle point touches the spindle?

The plot thickens as in order to answer the question I've now removed and checked various backbrackets on machines I have to discover my Junior Monarch, "Doric" double-spring, No. 7, Senior Monarch and Sheraton B, all have the exact same size back-bracket. Surely at least one of them must be right!

The only variations I have are in the tiny New Victor and the Intermediate Monarchs. There is also the noted lack of the two screw holes in the top of each of the earlier brackets which secure the "U" shaped plate to prevent the tonearm from freely swinging around 180 degrees. That would appear to have been a later modification.

Steve wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:29 am That's very interesting. Thanks, Jamie. So when "HMG" states that in all technical details the special models were identical to the Senior Monarch, that is not strictly correct?

The Sheraton B has triple spring motor and 12" turntable the same as the Senior and yet it shares a back-bracket with the smaller 10" machines? Is this uniquely strange about the Sheratons or are there other anomalies?

No the back bracket should be Senior Monarch size on the Sheraton B. Maybe the original dealer mixed up brackets when assembling gramophones in the shop or a collector/dealer married the part in later years. The difference is not immediately obvious unless you’re playing a record and even then most people would probably not be aware of the poorer tracking.

Steve wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:37 am My Sheraton currently has the same identical backbracket as my No. 7 and my Senior Monarch (in terms of physical dimensions) but has the needle underhang. The projection of the bracket would need to be less to bring the tonearm inwards so needle point touches the spindle?

Yes less projection so the needle meets the spindle. How much is the needle underhang?

jamiegramo wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:55 am

Steve wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:37 am My Sheraton currently has the same identical backbracket as my No. 7 and my Senior Monarch (in terms of physical dimensions) but has the needle underhang. The projection of the bracket would need to be less to bring the tonearm inwards so needle point touches the spindle?

Yes less projection so the needle meets the spindle. How much is the needle underhang?

That is what I'm struggling with. If the bracket with the shortest projection ie. one matching the Senior Monarch, is still too much for the Sheraton, pulling the tonearm further away from spindle, what bracket is there left to correct that? The one you suggested on 10" turntable machines would exacerbate the issue by throwing the arm even further away.

The underhang is just under ¾". It would require a bracket with a projection ¾" less than a Senior Monarch type to correct it. Does such a bracket exist?