The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello Everyone.
So I just recently received an Aeolian Vocalion Graduola, with a non-functional motor. I've found that the problem lies in the winding of the spring. So the problem I have is when winding it up, those little arms catch on a slot in the end of the spring. They should stay in there, but on mine, the arms don't catch enough and they end up falling off after about one turn of the crank, making it impossible to wind.

My question is, what has the problem? I'm confused as to whether the spring has somehow changed shape over the years, and is now unable to catch, or if something has happened to the arms so that they don't protrude enough to catch.

The hooks on the winding shaft appear to be okay. It's important that the inner coil of the spring wraps tightly around the shaft and conforms closely to the shaft diameter. It's sometimes necessary to close up that inner coil with a plier to reestablish that snug/tight fit. You should actually have to spring open the inner coil slightly to let the hook pass through, so that it can engage with the hole in the spring. After engaging with the spring hole, the spring should have that close, tight fit with the shaft, such that the hook cannot escape the spring.

JerryVan wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 6:01 pm The hooks on the winding shaft appear to be okay. It's important that the inner coil of the spring wraps tightly around the shaft and conforms closely to the shaft diameter. It's sometimes necessary to close up that inner coil with a plier to reestablish that snug/tight fit. You should actually have to spring open the inner coil slightly to let the hook pass through, so that it can engage with the hole in the spring. After engaging with the spring hole, the spring should have that close, tight fit with the shaft, such that the hook cannot escape the spring.

Thank you for your help! Unfortunately, after some testing I realized the problem is that the spring is broken halfway through the spring barrel. Any chance you know where i could get a replacement?

thephonographshop.com sells replacement springs.

Phono-Phan wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 8:39 pm thephonographshop.com sells replacement springs.

Thank you. Also, do you think it would be possible to repair? I saw some tutorials, but they all seemed to be for breaks near the end, this break is only a few turns from the beginning. I've also heard it's bad to repair one spring of a double spring motor since they have to be the exact same size, is this the case?

mrvic2 wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 8:45 pm

Phono-Phan wrote: Sat Mar 22, 2025 8:39 pm thephonographshop.com sells replacement springs.

Thank you. Also, do you think it would be possible to repair? I saw some tutorials, but they all seemed to be for breaks near the end, this break is only a few turns from the beginning. I've also heard it's bad to repair one spring of a double spring motor since they have to be the exact same size, is this the case?

Repairing is fine. It's replacing only one spring that's an issue. You may not be too bad off by repairing the spring. Show us a picture of the broken off piece. It you're loosing maybe 2" or 3" inches you may still be okay.

JerryVan wrote: Sun Mar 23, 2025 7:22 am
Repairing is fine. It's replacing only one spring that's an issue. You may not be too bad off by repairing the spring. Show us a picture of the broken off piece. It you're loosing maybe 2" or 3" inches you may still be okay.

Here's the picture.

You could also look for another motor or intact and functional spring drum. Spares are always good.

AV machines are prone to pot metal fatigue in their tone arms. They were not the most common machine, but neither are they rare. If you keep looking there will probably be lots of parts available.

The Thorens-made motors are fairly robust.

Here is a AV motor and motorboard on EBay for $150 US, a price which seems a bit extreme when one can often find a whole functional machine in fairly good condition for that price, but, whatever, the listing is a display that parts exist.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233995779579?_ ... R7T0lL24ZQ

The EBay listing has been up forever, I think. It might be profitable to contact the seller to see if a more reasonable price might be negotiated.

Brian Nix in Ontario (The Gramophone Doctor) has helped me with AV parts, and I believe he has also helped member, Inigo, by directing him to someone who had the part Inigo was looking for.

Difficult, but not impossible.
You have to extract the inner coils and anneal them to make them ductile again, then cut the hole to catch the arbor, and reshape the inner coils around the arbor.
In my first gramophone I made a savage repair of the spring by annealing both ends of the break*, making a hole and attaching a short bolt& nut. Rough, but it continued working for months, until I was able to get a new spring! It was the non internet era...
*EDIT: on the small gas torch of mum's kitchen...!

That's not too much loss of length, but as Inigo suggests, it's a tricky repair. I would anneal the inner end first, then grab with a stout plier and pull out the inner end. With the inner end pulled out, I then slide a wooden dowel into the end curl. Make the appropriate hole in the spring end, then force the end back into place.