The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The title of this thread should end with "Authorities" but I ran out of space!

For anyone wondering about this I'm just about to make my 10th claim to HMRC for the wilful overcharging of import VAT on certified antique items.

If anyone wants any help due to similar over-charging on items you've purchased from overseas recently, please let me know here or via PM as I am happy to talk people through the process. But why do they insist upon overcharging in the first place? Why have rules about differing VAT rates if you have frontline staff incapable of correctly processing them?

I've just been charged 20% VAT on an item clearly marked as dating from the year 1900 with the correct import coding, ie. a certifiable antique.

Watch this space!

I will indeed! This process is particularly interesting. I think they just charge on everything in the hope that people won’t be bothered to challenge it or simply don’t know they can. I’ve even had VAT charged on books, clearly marked as such, which are supposed to be VAT exempt.

jamiegramo wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:56 pm I will indeed! This process is particularly interesting. I think they just charge on everything in the hope that people won’t be bothered to challenge it or simply don’t know they can. I’ve even had VAT charged on books, clearly marked as such, which are supposed to be VAT exempt.

It sounds cynical but I think you are quite right. They seem to indiscriminately apply 20% VAT against anything and everything just because they can and I'm in no doubt that a lot of unsuspecting people never challenge them, perhaps through the belief that authority knows best and must always be right.

jamiegramo wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:56 pm I will indeed! This process is particularly interesting. I think they just charge on everything in the hope that people won’t be bothered to challenge it or simply don’t know they can. I’ve even had VAT charged on books, clearly marked as such, which are supposed to be VAT exempt.

jamiegramo wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:56 pm I will indeed! This process is particularly interesting. I think they just charge on everything in the hope that people won’t be bothered to challenge it or simply don’t know they can. I’ve even had VAT charged on books, clearly marked as such, which are supposed to be VAT exempt.

From what I understand , the vat exemption on books applies to books bought ( new ) in UK. Books that are imported are subject to the rules that apply to any other imported goods or products. I also think thay in UK , secondhand books do not enjoy vat exemption. Strange !.

When I've had 78s and gramophone parts sent from the US to the UK, I've used the following customs code which has *often* escaped customs charges:

9705000090
> Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest
> > Collections and collectors' pieces of archaeological, ethnographic or historical interest
> > > Other
> > > > Collectors’ pieces of historical interest

Dulcetto wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:51 pm From what I understand , the vat exemption on books applies to books bought ( new ) in UK. Books that are imported are subject to the rules that apply to any other imported goods or products. I also think thay in UK , secondhand books do not enjoy vat exemption. Strange !.

Certainly in my case, which was a few years ago, I questioned the charges and received a full refund. These were new educational books. Whether the rules have changed I don’t know.

Orchorsol wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 3:02 pm When I've had 78s and gramophone parts sent from the US to the UK, I've used the following customs code which has *often* escaped customs charges:

9705000090
> Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest
> > Collections and collectors' pieces of archaeological, ethnographic or historical interest
> > > Other
> > > > Collectors’ pieces of historical interest

Oh, that's very risky! If you or the seller knowingly make a false claim, and the authorities are suspicious, bearing in mind they have the right to open and inspect goods entering the country, they can seize goods which causes no end of problems!

I always ask a seller to simply state "Antique" and "Over 100 years old" on forms along with the relevant code for antiques and collectibles up to 250 years old. Of course, the numpty tax collectors can't read but that's another story, hence this thread.

Steve wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:37 am

Orchorsol wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 3:02 pm When I've had 78s and gramophone parts sent from the US to the UK, I've used the following customs code which has *often* escaped customs charges:

9705000090
> Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest
> > Collections and collectors' pieces of archaeological, ethnographic or historical interest
> > > Other
> > > > Collectors’ pieces of historical interest

Oh, that's very risky! If you or the seller knowingly make a false claim, and the authorities are suspicious, bearing in mind they have the right to open and inspect goods entering the country, they can seize goods which causes no end of problems!

I always ask a seller to simply state "Antique" and "Over 100 years old" on forms along with the relevant code for antiques and collectibles up to 250 years old. Of course, the numpty tax collectors can't read but that's another story, hence this thread.

I should have said, WITH the written description "antique gramophone/phonograph records".

As the port ( U.K) is an entry into a private for profit CORPORATION there is little a Man or Woman can do against the tyranny it dishes out. A good place to start is maybe the likes of "The peoples lawyer" or David Straight in the U.S although it takes a lot of time to learn the bear traps of Corporate LAW & how to avoid them.

herrickpickups wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:04 pm As the port ( U.K) is an entry into a private for profit CORPORATION there is little a Man or Woman can do against the tyranny it dishes out. A good place to start is maybe the likes of "The peoples lawyer" or David Straight in the U.S although it takes a lot of time to learn the bear traps of Corporate LAW & how to avoid them.

The tax is collected by HMRC, which is a non-ministerial department of the UK government. It is not a private for profit corporation. The rules exist to be followed, not ignored but the dimwits who carry out the everyday tasks. It is their fault; they do not know how to do their job properly. If they can't do it, they should be fired and replaced with people who can, just like any private organisation.