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Hi all, I am not familiar with phonograph machine and am considering to purchase this Edison Standard Model C phonograph from EBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356842123782. However I would prefer a machine that can play both 2 and 4 minutes records. The seller informed that it should be able as there is a speed control. But I read online that what is important is the conversion gearing kit installed and a reproducer H. I think I can buy a reproducer H separately but am not really sure if the conversion kit is there.

Appreciate it if anyone can comment if the gearing kit is there to play 4 minutes records based on the photos provided? If there is anything that I should take note of, would be grateful if you could also point out. Thank so much!

I'm not personally familiar with the C Standard (when I had one, it was a B), but this one does not appear to have 4-minute capability. It needs a gear shift; the speed control is irrelevant for ability to play 4-minute records. I don't see a gear shift here. One other point of potential concern: the mandrels of machines without end gates, like this one, ran in a pot metal bearing that can swell with time and cause uneven rotation or even freeze the machine up entirely. Before buying it, you should explore thoroughly whether that problem is present. It can be fixed readily enough if you have a good machine mechanic nearby, but that's extra expense and hassle and should at the least be reflected in the price.

[edit] Why you need a gear shift: the groove pitch for 4-minute cylinders is double that of 2-minute cylinders; that is, if a 2-minute cylinder has 100 threads per inch, a 4-minute will have 200. Thus, when playing a 4-minute cylinder, the player's mechanical feed needs to move the reproducer across the face of the record at half the speed of a 2-minute feed for the stylus to track. If it's running at the 2-minute rate, the stylus will be tracking across the record twice as fast as the groove is progressing, meaning it will constantly be skipping. For 2-minute cylinders, of course, the problem is reversed: at the 4-minute rate, the reproducer would be moving across the cylinder at half the rate at which the groove progresses.

The Model C, iirc, is a fairly uncommon model. I don't know whether they are more or less common as ICS machines.

This is a 2 minute only machine. You'd have to find a combination attachment, and an H reproducer.
The speed control has nothing to do with 4 minute cylinders: ICS cylinders were recorded around 80 rpm, so the old external knob was retained on these machines.

- Bill

My two cents. As it sits, it does not have the four minute conversion, and will only play two minute records. As the tag on the bottom front of the case indicates, it was an ICS (International Correspondence School) machine, and still has the repeater, so that's cool. The only thing I am not sure about is the speed control. I can't say I've seen a Standard Model C with an external speed control, but maybe it's part of the ICS package? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can clear that up. As I was typing this, I saw Bill's posting, so that clears up the speed control question.

Steve

Looking closely at the photos, it looks to me as if the mandrel bushing has been replaced with a brass bushing, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Steve

At one time I owned an ICS model C with the 2-and-4 minute adaptor. You can read my writeup on it here:

viewtopic.php?t=15757&hilit=featured

Sadly, the pictures have been lost, but you may the explanatory text to be interesting.

Ahh the Model C...I still need one on my collection along with the Model F then I'll have every model of the Edison standard!

Model Cs are not uncommon as they were made till the last years of Edison. They are great phonographs and are basically a 2 minute model D. I like the speed controller on the top that disappeared with the model B. I have one of the last model Cs made at serial number eight hundred thousand and something. They were sold for there educational language cylinders to teach other languages. Models D, E, and Fs are basically the same phonographs with some modifications.
I think a converter kit is or was available for the two minute machines that let them play two and four minute discs. It used to cost approx. $ 90 and I do not know what there cost is now but they are available If you like it and the price is right grab it as this C phonograph is becoming rarer and rarer. There are a lot of two minute cylinders around