The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi
I purchased this machine from the Robert Holmes A Court Collection. I would like to know who made it and if anyone has seen one before or know of another. Any information is appreciated.

I think it may have been made by the same artist that produced the Budha gramophones, we have one of them also and they have a lot of similarities.

Thanks
Regards Marcel

Hi
Very interesting. Whats it made of?

Thanks
Brad

Hi Brad

It is made of timber with a thin coat of plaster. I would say the plaster was painted black, then design carved into the plaster and coloured.

The surface is very fragile, one bump with a vacuum cleaner will chip it and show the white plaster.

Regards Marcel

This could be a homemade gramophone from a skilled artist. It looks well made.

The design is quite elaborate, but I also think it is the work of a skilled artist who created it using various parts from other machines.

Are you sure it's plaster and not paper mache'? I've seen Victorian pieces made of paper mache' that were painted similar to this, and paper mache' furniture is also is very easily damaged.

I thought it could be lacquered papermache too, but it's hard to say from a picture. Normally papermache will have raised decoration, so this could be like those old picture frames that had a layer of plaster with the design pressed into it.
Either way, I dont think it's home made or an artists creation.
To me it looks like a British machine made by a professional manufacturer, although I doubt they were strictly in the gramophone business.
In the Victorian & Edwardian periods, there were literally hundreds of Japanese lacquerwork companies operating in London & surrounding areas, when this type of furniture (often combined with bamboo) was at it's height of popularity.
It's purely a guess, but I think this may have been produced by one of the last surviving major companies of this type in England.
Some of the running gear components look Swiss, but others have a British look to them. It wouldn't surprize me if the motor is by Garrard, or has design similarities to a Garrard.
Whatever it is, it would sure look great in my parlour amoungst the other lacquered pieces

Hi All

Yes it is plaster, I had to do some repairs on it so I know for sure. It is well made and the parts all fit together well. It has a lot of similarities to the Budha gramophone, but this could be coincidence.

Below are a couple of pictures of the motor in the Budha, it is exactly the same as in the machine I have put in this thread. You can see it has stamped on it British made.

Regards Marcel

Marcel, does anything about this British Aeolian Vocalion look familar

http://www.hupse.eu/radio/frameset.htm? ... ntentFrame


I've never come across this motor before, but according to the above link, your motor is an A.P.M.
The Aeolian has a Type M.1., which appears to be the single spring version of your motor. (a Type M.2. maybe?)
I've never heard of A.P.M. before, and didn't have any luck finding out online, not even searching "The Gramophone" magazine.
Can anyone educate me as to who A.P.M. were?
The owner of the website must have got the information somewhere, so perhaps he could fill you in on the details of the motor.
If I hadn't come across this APM reference, I would be leaning towards this being a Garrard manufactured motor.

The design of the knob on the crank, I have only ever found on Garrard motors, and on UK Columbia branded motors that were made by Garrard anyway. The design of the metal part of the crank I have never found used on a Garrard however, but I have seen the exact same design used by Thorens numerous times.
The ratchet assembly appears to be Garrard, as does the speed control assembly part of the motor.
The governor however looks more like a Thorens than a Garrard though.
I can only get to 2 of my Garrard double spring motors atm, and both of these use a separate barrel for each spring, but your barrel look as though it matches those used in some Rexonola motors made by Thorens.
The only motor I have that uses a one piece cast motor frame with threaded bearings like yours, is the Garrard super motor too, so it would seen whoever APM was, they were copying designs from both companies & combining them.

There is also a chance these motors were made in Switzerland by Thorens, but I'm yet to come across a Thorens motor claiming to be British Made, but several times I have seen Thorens soundboxes that make this claim. Then again, Thorens weren't in the habit of include patent numbers on their products.
Thorens also copied some Garrard designs. The "Swiss made" Aeolian No.7 motor is almost an exact copy of Garrards first motor, the 1A, except the position of 1 of the 4 screw holes used to attach the motor to the motor board has been moved by ½", otherwise the two motors would have been interchangable.
The AV has exactly the same brake & speed control as your machine/s too, so I wonder if APM did make complete machines that outside companies could buy & label as their own?
I also notice the AV above uses exactly the same lock as my Regal portable which claims to be manufactured in Australia, but it is actually completely manufactured in Switzerland by Thoren. The same machine was also sold as a British Edison-Bell, and they are even a similar design as the AV above.
This could be a coincidence of course, but it's got me wondering if APM was actually a Thorens owned company operating out of England.

Hi Shane

You most definitely should come and visit, we would have lots to talk about.

The brake on my machine is the same as the picture you posted, the rest is a little different. My speed control is shield shaped, If you would like more photos let me know I will take all you need. Thanks for your input.

Regards Marcel