The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I believe this must be a hybrid of a genuine German made His Master's Voice and Paillard horn gramophone? I have never seen anything similar before, and it would be of big interest to know if anyone else ever has. We can see the Paillard logo on the motor, the cross and the postal horn, and it is a solid 2 spring Paillard motor, and accompanying Paillard speed control and brake, while the bracket, horn, tone arm and Junior Exhibition sound box is HMV. It is the first time I see a Danish made Exhibition Junior, so far I have only seen a couple of ordinary Danish made Exhibition sound boxes.

For sure and interesting gramophone, and taking into consideration the Exhibition Junior, I myself would date this to a WW1 gramophone, also explaining the parts used on this machine. I have earlier on seen DGAG manufactured table gramophones with genuine HMV cabinets, with a Danish made Exhibition sound box, and with Thorens or Paillard motors inside, but this is the first time I myself see a horn model manufactured this way.

Now.....I look forward to inputs, views, disagreements and corrections as always.
It will be very interesting to see where we land.

PS. It's not mine...

I believe this is correct and as you say manufactured during the First World War when Deutsche Grammophon was cut off from Britain and therefore had to use motors from other manufacturers. I remember Howard Hope selling a similar WW1 HMV horn machine with a continental motor and no evidence of remotoring.

It appears to be the bracket / arm / elbow from an Intermediate Monarch. But without better pics and measurements it is hard to tell for certain.

I agree it is absolutely genuine and a rare and interesting find. The motor is very good quality too!

nostalgia wrote: Sat May 17, 2025 10:20 am
Now.....I look forward to inputs, views, disagreements and corrections as always.
It will be very interesting to see where we land.

PS. It's not mine...

Now that you know it is genuine, is it for sale and might you be able to buy it?

Roger.

Thank you for all replies.
Yes, it is for sale...but this will not be a gramophone that will be easy to get.
It also very much depends on the sales price, this time I feel it may be more expensive than what I am used to...
It's hard to compare this gramophone to a genuine pure HMV Intermediate Monarch as I see it, I don't know what you think ?

I'd prefer it to an all HMV Intermediate Monarch personally.

Is it for sale online and could you share a link if you do not want to proceed with it please?

Sorry for the late reply, Steve. I have taken up singing in a choir the last two years, and I just finished three concerts, so I was not online much the last week. HOWEVER, the listing is still online, and if you want to bid on the gramophone, it is still very possible. It is sold from Sweden. I myself have decided not to proceed with this machine, since I got hold of a German made double spring HMV Monarch a couple of weeks back, that I still don't know where to put, and....it is also a gramophone outside my budget at this time.
Good luck, if you proceed:)

https://auctionet.com/en/4193868-a-wood ... f-the-20th

Thanks again to Martin for the link and OP. I'd never seen an example of a German HMV machine made with forced compromises during WW1.

£892 plus 25% commission was the final bid for anyone interested. I did bid but didn't win it leaving two other bidders to slug it out at the end because to my mind there were two issues upon closer inspection which reduced its value in my opinion: the horn was mahogany but the cabinet is walnut or at least looked like it and doesn't match the horn. I wonder if one of our German members can confirm this either way?

Relating to the horn I noted the sleeve at the narrow elbow end looked a little crumpled, the length of horn given by the auctioneers seemed different to what I expected but why was a brass knurled bolt needed to secure the horn into the elbow? Wooden horns usually have a raised pin in the metal sleeve to engage with the slotted elbow. Or is this another example of wartime manufacturing compromises?

Anyway it is a lovely condition machine and at the price we can be sure it's gone to the "right" owner!

Steve wrote: Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:00 am
Relating to the horn I noted the sleeve at the narrow elbow end looked a little crumpled, the length of horn given by the auctioneers seemed different to what I expected but why was a brass knurled bolt needed to secure the horn into the elbow? Wooden horns usually have a raised pin in the metal sleeve to engage with the slotted elbow. Or is this another example of wartime manufacturing compromises?

Anyway it is a lovely condition machine and at the price we can be sure it's gone to the "right" owner!

The horn looked odd also in that, for a "smooth" horn, its form appeared to be "lumpy" and "faceted".

JerryVan wrote: Sun Jun 01, 2025 7:57 am

Steve wrote: Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:00 am
Relating to the horn I noted the sleeve at the narrow elbow end looked a little crumpled, the length of horn given by the auctioneers seemed different to what I expected but why was a brass knurled bolt needed to secure the horn into the elbow? Wooden horns usually have a raised pin in the metal sleeve to engage with the slotted elbow. Or is this another example of wartime manufacturing compromises?

Anyway it is a lovely condition machine and at the price we can be sure it's gone to the "right" owner!

The horn looked odd also in that, for a "smooth" horn, its form appeared to be "lumpy" and "faceted".

Yes, it was distorted in places as you say but I've seen this before on the same type of horn where they've been stored somewhere damp.