The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Okay folks, whilst I anxiously await for my copy of "Collectors Guide To Victor Records" to arrive in the mail, I have a mystery that cannot wait. While going through the rather large amount of Monarchs that I recently pulled from a machine I picked up locally I started to notice a little mark just above the "CO" in Talking Machine Co. It appears to be a little 'c'. At first I thought it was traces of errant ink until after flipping through a couple of discs it occurred to me that it was in the exact same shape, the exact same spot. I posted this question to the 78 rpm records group on FB and so far the only comment has been someone wondering if it's an early copyright notice. Trick is I have a copy of a record without the mark and there is a photo of the exact record on Discogs that has the mark.

So, can anyone hazard a guess as to what this mark means OR is there anyone here who knows definitively? Perhaps someone else with the Sherman & Nauck book?

Here are the images of what I'm talking about:

Wow, actually didn't think this would go through. After timing out twice I went and posted it on the APS Forum.
Apologies for the cross/double posting!

I've read that the small "c" indicates that the record was pressed in Victor's Camden NJ plant, but someone please confirm.

OrthoFan is right. The "C" represents the pressing plant. I remember reading about this, but I'm pretty sure other letters meaning other plants also exist.

OrthoFan wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:24 am I've read that the small "c" indicates that the record was pressed in Victor's Camden NJ plant, but someone please confirm.

On the Discogs page for the Camden plant, xiphophilos added "On Patents labels indicated by a C on the lower right side of the label":
https://www.discogs.com/label/1710544-V ... f=4&page=1

These are certainly not Patents labels, those were still yet-to-come when these Monarchs were made. If the C is an indicator of a Camden pressing, then the description for the plant in Discogs needs to be changed in order to include some of the last pressings of the Monarch Record label. I suppose it makes sense, the Monarch label ended in March, 1905 which means, depending on when in 1905 the Camden plant opened, a small amount of Monarchs may have been pressed there. If this is the case, I need to start making some changes to some Discogs releases.

I may still wait for the book to arrive, just in case

I am finding the second photo interesting as I have never seen "VICTOR" stamped in the runout like that before.

gramophone-georg wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 2:12 pm I am finding the second photo interesting as I have never seen "VICTOR" stamped in the runout like that before.

Ditto.

The “Collector’s Guide” has just a short note which states that the “c” in the 5 o’clock position “might” indicate a Camden pressing. They did later use the small “o” on Orthophonic labels to indicate Oakland pressings, so it makes sense.
I could not find any info about the “Victor” in the runoff area. None of the very few I own have it or the “c” on the label.
Those are some nice examples of the first “Trademark” label, released in July 1902. The very first had a flush label, with a sunken center being introduced “later” in 1902.
You’ll not regret buying a copy of “Collector’s Guide”. I have found it indispensable. I think you will also.

Steve

gramophone-georg wrote: Mon Aug 04, 2025 2:12 pm I am finding the second photo interesting as I have never seen "VICTOR" stamped in the runout like that before.

I thought the same! I wonder if it was soon after the Camden plant opened and they were toying around with ways to distinguish in the runouts...