The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Greetings. I went to a local garage sale this weekend and found 5 pre-conditions Columbia 10-inch disc records, 4 with the silver ring around the rim of the label. Only one of those is of the very earliest type (according to "Note the Notes" -- a great resource, if you don't have it), without the patent dates. I'm not sure I have another one that old, and it raises a few questions:

1. Is that a metal grommet in the spindle hole? I've seen those on 7" records, but never on a 10". None of the ones with conditions labels have them.

2. On the back it says "PAT. APP'D FOR." The record without the ring has a patent date stamped on it (see last picture), which makes me think this record must have been pressed before November 1902. Anyway: What was the patent for, exactly?

3. What is that round depression in the back of the record near the spindle hole (see second picture)? Why is it there? All of these discs have it.

4. These records are all announced. Did anyone other than Columbia have announcers on disc records?

(Oh, and in case you're worried, that's a scratch, not a crack.)

Thanks!

1. Is that a metal grommet in the spindle hole? I've seen those on 7" records, but never on a 10". None of the ones with conditions labels have them.

The grommet is a vestigial remnant of the Globe Record Company's manufacturing technique. The transition from Globe to Columbia has been detailed in articles in the APS magazine, as well as in The Talking Machine Compendium and Discovering Antique Phonographs.

2. On the back it says "PAT. APP'D FOR." The record without the ring has a patent date stamped on it (see last picture), which makes me think this record must have been pressed before November 1902. Anyway: What was the patent for, exactly?

Offhand, I don't recall, but you can look that up on Google Patents.

3. What is that round depression in the back of the record near the spindle hole (see second picture)? Why is it there? All of these discs have it.

That's another feature of Globe pressings which carried over into early Columbia pressings after the pressing plant was moved to Bridgeport. The original purpose of the depression was to engage the pin in a Zonophone turntable. Again, the relationship between Zonophone, Globe, and Columbia can be found in a number of places, including those mentioned above.

4. These records are all announced. Did anyone other than Columbia have announcers on disc records?

Yes: Berliner, Vitaphone, Zonophone, Victor, American, and other smaller firms.

Hope this helps.

George P.

Thanks, George. I had that thought about the depression and Zonophones, but I figured that was only for 7-inch records.

Speaking of which, in asking about which other labels had announcements on disc records, I should have specified that I was asking about 10-inch records. I have a number of pre-dog Victor 10-inch records, for instance, and none of them are announced.

Wow, I recently acquired a 10” Columbia with the depression in the back. It looked like it was for an engagement pin, but I couldn’t find anything that suggested Columbia turntables ever had one. I was going to post about it, but that is now unnecessary; I have been clued-in! Thanks.
I forget the issue number of mine, but will note it the next time I see the record. (I bought two portables, a VV-50 from 1927 in pretty good shape, other than a broken spring, and a front crank HMV 101, which is slightly tatty, but plays very well, along with about 900 records, so it is taking me a while to go through them and clean the ones I want to keep.)
Also present was a 10” pre-dog Victor, my one and only, so far.
Cheers,
Tom