The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Greetings. I recently stumbled upon a cache of several dozen brown wax cylinders, the largest I've ever found. Miraculously, none were broken, very few were cracked, and most are playable; some are even fairly loud. (There seems to be no correlation between condition, as long as it's playable, and volume; some of the cleanest ones are pretty faint.) Some have little or no mold. All had containers, and most were either wrapped in wax paper or had pieces of wrapped paper still in the containers. None had any cotton wadding (thankfully). There are a few Edison or Columbia containers, but most are plain cardboard. And these are very mysterious to me. I'm hoping some of you can educate me about them.

Almost all of the plain containers have slips pasted to them. (Most have elegant handwriting on their lids, too.) Some say "National Phonograph Co," which I know is Edison. (One such label is on an Edison container.) These NPC labels are either blue, green or off-white. One container (picture 2) is stamped "Eastern Talking Machine Co.," which I recognize as an early Columbia dealer in Boston; I found several others of those at an estate sale years ago. (I also have two Columbia Eagles with Eastern Talking Machine Company nameplates.) The rest are complete enigmas.

As you can see in these pictures of a representative sampling, some labels are printed, some are handwritten, and some are a combination of both. One has typewriting on it. None of these lists a company. Some have the name of the artist rubber stamped on them. Some of these are, I presume, Columbias -- some are announced, but the announcing can be unintelligible, or, if clear, doesn't mention the name of the record company. Some are not announced at all. The Columbia ones I can hear reference "New York and Paris," if that gives a clue about age.

The most intriguing one to me is the first one pictured -- the one that says "T.T.M. Co." at the bottom. I have never seen this before, and Google brings up nothing useful. I assume "T.M." is Talking Machine, but I have no idea what the first T is for. Can anyone tell me anything specific about this or any of the other slips? Did the manufacturer or seller paste them on the outside of the box, or would the owner have done so after purchase? Are these records/boxes older than those in the regular Edison and Columbia cases (I've included a couple of pictures of those), or are they the same age and were just packaged differently by retailers? (One is NPC number 35, so I imagine that must be pretty old.)

A couple of these records have songs about the Spanish American War. (The "Dewey" in picture 3 is Admiral Dewey, hero of the Battle of Manila Bay; another, not pictured, is titled "Hol' Dem Philippines.")

Finally, most or all of these seem meant to play at different speeds than black wax cylinders. I'm used to this with brown wax, but these seem to vary more widely. Can anyone direct me to an article about the proper speed for these? (Or you can just tell me yourself if you prefer.)

I welcome any and all information, theories, and comments about this mysterious cache. Thank you!

That looks like a wonderful group of records. Several dozen! Wow...

I'm pretty confident that "T.T.M.Co." is "The Talking Machine Company," which was a Chicago record producer in the late 1890s. (Not to be confused with "The Chicago Talking Machine Company.")

The "New York and Paris" is a common Columbia announcement that appeared in 1898.

Edison and Columbia box labels didn't appear until around 1898. Prior to that time, cylinder records were sold in plain boxes such as those you found. There were several smaller companies operating in some cities which recorded songs by well-known artists but without spoken announcements. This was done so the inventory could be sold to larger companies when demand exceeded supply. No doubt some of your title slips are from some of these small companies, and checking their catalog numbers against existing record lists might determine the original source. The Phonoscope published monthly lists of new titles, which would aid you in determining an earliest possible date.

Congratulations!

George P.

This is an interesting set of records purchased between about 1897 and 1901. George is right that the TTMCo cylinder is from The Talking Machine Company of Chicago which was a Columbia dealer. However, they also resold cylinders sourced from other suppliers. The Leachman record is likely one of them. The other records on unusual labels are from other companies: the Gaskin and Gilmore's were likely recorded by the US Phono Company of NJ which may or may not have been resold by TTMCo. Eastern Talking Machine was also a Columbia dealer but obviously serviced another part of the country.

Either way, this is an interesting collection of cylinders that, if in good shape, should be catalogued, transferred and properly stored.

John Levin

Thank you both. Very informative!

I'm still wondering if the title slips would have been pasted on the boxes before or after purchase. Any thoughts?

Regarding cataloguing and transferring, I'm not quite sure what is meant by the former, nor how to do the latter. Is there an open-source online catalog? If so, I would be happy to add mine, but doubt very much I have anything that someone else hasn't already catalogued. Also, I'm not sure how I would catalog records for which I don't have a title slip, and, in some cases, no title and record company announcement. If anyone can offer me any guidance, I would really appreciate it.

As for transferring them, I know nothing about that. I have heard a thing or two about fancy lab machines that can digitize cylinders, but I don't know any more than that. On a few occasions I have held a pocket digital recorder up to a horn so I could try to discern what was being said or sung on a very faint cylinder, but I don't imagine that's what you have in mind.

Storage: All I know is that dry is good. Beyond that...?

One thing I have noticed is that a moldy brown wax cylinder seems to be more likely to still be playable than a moldy black one. Of course, this depends on the extent of the mold, etc. but this has been my experience. Am I mistaken?

Another thing I've noticed is that some "mold" on brown wax cylinders seems actually to be residue of cotton wadding. Is there anything I can do to remove this?

Thanks again!

I'm still wondering if the title slips would have been pasted on the boxes before or after purchase. Any thoughts?

Those early slips were sold pasted to the box.

Storage: All I know is that dry is good. Beyond that...?

Temperatures should ideally be around 55-70 degrees F. with relative humidity between 30-55%. Shifts of temperature should not exceed 40 degrees F. over a 24-hour period.

One thing I have noticed is that a moldy brown wax cylinder seems to be more likely to still be playable than a moldy black one. Of course, this depends on the extent of the mold, etc. but this has been my experience. Am I mistaken?

My experience is the same as yours.

Another thing I've noticed is that some "mold" on brown wax cylinders seems actually to be residue of cotton wadding. Is there anything I can do to remove this?

I've had good results by simply using a clean, soft cotton rag (old socks or T-shirts work well) and gently rubbing/polishing the cylinder with both hands, lightly gripping with both hands as if holding a baseball bat. Rub gently and slowly in the direction of the groove changing to a clean surface 3 or 4 times per cylinder.

George P.

yeah ive had the same experience with moldy brown wax being better than moldy black wax. you should digitize these (maybe into a guest collection on i78s?)

Re: the odd speeds. Are they on the 'third party' cylinders? Could those companies have been less strict about recording speeds? Were Edison & Columbia more standardized?

- Bill