The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

We are trying to figure out if dad simply didn't differentiate between types of 4 minute Edison cylinders, and used the blue amberol and regular amberol boxes interchangeably, or if he knew something we don't.

Is the absolute identifying factor of a blue amberol that it is visibly blue? I know they have plaster of paris interiors, but the level of whiteness inside the blue cylinders varies widely.

Likewise, if it appears black and 4 min (and is an Edison) is it definitely a regular amberol? (And sometimes we disagree as to whether they are blue or black.... old eyes)

Another question is, are the blue amberol and regular amberol catalog numbers the same for the same title? Or were they numbered differently?

Thank you for your help.

The "Blue" Amberol records had a plaster core with a relatively thin layer of celluloid wrapped around it, and were played with an ultra fine diamond stulus. The earlier "Black" four minute Amberol records were a solid wax-like compound--no plaster core--and were played using a fine sapphire stylus. There were color variations in the blue dye, so a careful inspection of the core is the easiest way to tell.

Also see --
https://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/history-amberol.php
https://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/hist ... mberol.php

This may also be useful --

...and another resource scroll down to the cylinder record section):

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

George P.

The plaster in the earlier Blue Amberols was dyed dark blue, but this was dropped later on. The celluloid itself was different shades of blue, depending on temperature & humidity during dyeing. Around 1913, they tried using a cheaper dye, but that was not successful; the 'faded' BAs (looking like old blue jeans) are from that period.

Rule of thumb: if the core is plaster, it's a BA. If it's the same material as the surface, it's a wax Amberol.

- Bill

phonogfp wrote: Wed Oct 15, 2025 8:47 pm ...and another resource scroll down to the cylinder record section):

https://www.antiquephono.org/#/collectiondetails/16

George P.

Thank you, George. You've pointed me toward some things I hadn't found before.

Lucius1958 wrote: Thu Oct 16, 2025 12:04 am The plaster in the earlier Blue Amberols was dyed dark blue, but this was dropped later on. The celluloid itself was different shades of blue, depending on temperature & humidity during dyeing. Around 1913, they tried using a cheaper dye, but that was not successful; the 'faded' BAs (looking like old blue jeans) are from that period.

Rule of thumb: if the core is plaster, it's a BA. If it's the same material as the surface, it's a wax Amberol.

- Bill

I appreciate the very practical tip Bill. The very white plaster of paris insides are easy. I had no idea that some of the insides were dyed. And feeling the difference on the inside rather than just looking was not something I had considered.