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Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:11 am
by poodling around
I don't really know what a tone-arm counter-balance actually does.
Like the one on this gramophone here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257186916827 ... R4j635DLZg
Do they reduce record wear and some-how make the records sound better ?
Maybe they are adjusted according to which type of needle is used ? (eg. Thorn, Bamboo, steel etc).
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:51 am
by jamiegramo
An interesting question. I always assumed it was to lighten the load on the record and therefore reduce wear or set ideal tracking weight for optimum performance. Perhaps it also serves as an anti skating device.
I believe ‘epigramophone’ owns one of these Perophones so hopefully he can enlighten us.
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:39 pm
by Steve
jamiegramo wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:51 am
An interesting question. I always assumed it was to lighten the load on the record and therefore reduce wear or set ideal tracking weight for optimum performance. Perhaps it also serves as an anti skating device.
I believe ‘epigramophone’ owns one of these Perophones so hopefully he can enlighten us.
I have the second biggest model Micro Perophone Chromagram with the counter weight adjustment. I presume it's there to reduce record wear but also to allow the use of fibre and thorn needles without premature breakdown of the needle points. As far as my knowledge of the physics of record playing extends, I don't believe there is any sound reproduction benefit of reducing the pressure at the needle point.
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:43 pm
by poodling around
Steve wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:39 pm
jamiegramo wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:51 am
An interesting question. I always assumed it was to lighten the load on the record and therefore reduce wear or set ideal tracking weight for optimum performance. Perhaps it also serves as an anti skating device.
I believe ‘epigramophone’ owns one of these Perophones so hopefully he can enlighten us.
I have the second biggest model Micro Perophone Chromagram with the counter weight adjustment. I presume it's there to reduce record wear but also to allow the use of fibre and thorn needles without premature breakdown of the needle points. As far as my knowledge of the physics of record playing extends, I don't believe there is any sound reproduction benefit of reducing the pressure at the needle point.
Oh, very interesting indeed.
Which model was this one I wonder. It looks quite big ?
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:47 am
by epigramophone
poodling around wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:43 pm
Which model was this one I wonder. It looks quite big ?
The machine which you pictured is a c.1930 Chromogram Model MP22 in Mahogany which sold for 18 Guineas (£18.90).
It was a medium priced model. The top of the range models sold for 35 to 40 Guineas.
The beautifully simple counterweight, pictured on my MP23, has it's uses. For normal playing using steel needles I remove the soundbox and adjust the counterweight until the crescent shaped tone arm hangs horizontally and unsupported. In this position only the weight of the soundbox bears upon the record.
When playing Pathé discs using a Pathé reproducer and adapter I adjust the counterweight to it's heaviest setting to minimise the risk of skating.
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:53 am
by Steve
epigramophone wrote: Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:47 am
poodling around wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:43 pm
Which model was this one I wonder. It looks quite big ?
The machine which you pictured is a c.1930 Chromogram Model MP22 in Mahogany which sold for 18 Guineas (£18.90).
The beautifully simple counterweight, pictured on my MP23, has it's uses. For normal playing using steel needles I remove the soundbox and adjust the counterweight until the crescent shaped tone arm hangs horizontally. In this position only the weight of the soundbox bears upon the record.
When playing Pathé discs using a Pathé reproducer and adapter I adjust the counterweight to it's heaviest setting to minimise the risk of skating.
Please remind me, Roger, is my Perophone a MP30? I know that you know I bought it from Alistair quite recently and both of you had something of an "adventure" collecting it in the first place!
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 5:02 am
by epigramophone
Your machine is indeed an MP30 which sold for 24 Guineas. According to the catalogue it was "Designed to meet the insistent demand for an instrument of maximum power for use in Music Room, Lecture Hall, Dance or Ballroom, Hotel Lounge or for Gramophone Societies, &c."
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 5:26 am
by Steve
epigramophone wrote: Fri Nov 07, 2025 5:02 am
Your machine is indeed an MP30 which sold for 24 Guineas. According to the catalogue it was "Designed to meet the insistent demand for an instrument of maximum power for use in Music Room, Lecture Hall, Dance or Ballroom, Hotel Lounge or for Gramophone Societies, &c."
Thanks, Roger.
I'd happily settle for it having "maximum power for use in" my living room!
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 6:37 am
by poodling around
epigramophone wrote: Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:47 am
poodling around wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:43 pm
Which model was this one I wonder. It looks quite big ?
The machine which you pictured is a c.1930 Chromogram Model MP22 in Mahogany which sold for 18 Guineas (£18.90).
It was a medium priced model. The top of the range models sold for 35 to 40 Guineas.
The beautifully simple counterweight, pictured on my MP23, has it's uses. For normal playing using steel needles I remove the soundbox and adjust the counterweight until the crescent shaped tone arm hangs horizontally and unsupported. In this position only the weight of the soundbox bears upon the record.
When playing Pathé discs using a Pathé reproducer and adapter I adjust the counterweight to it's heaviest setting to minimise the risk of skating.
Wow, there was quite a large difference between the mid-range price and the high-end price. Different horns I guess too.
Very interesting to hear how you use the counter-weight as well. I am now all the wiser.
Of course, don't worry if you can't but if you can I wonder if you could upload the Chromogram catalogue again as it was 'lost' in a previous and very informative thread you started some years ago.
Happy days always !
Re: Counter-Balance - What does it actually do ?
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2025 1:28 pm
by poodling around
epigramophone wrote: Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:47 am
poodling around wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:43 pm
Which model was this one I wonder. It looks quite big ?
The machine which you pictured is a c.1930 Chromogram Model MP22 in Mahogany which sold for 18 Guineas (£18.90).
It was a medium priced model. The top of the range models sold for 35 to 40 Guineas.
The beautifully simple counterweight, pictured on my MP23, has it's uses. For normal playing using steel needles I remove the soundbox and adjust the counterweight until the crescent shaped tone arm hangs horizontally and unsupported. In this position only the weight of the soundbox bears upon the record.
When playing Pathé discs using a Pathé reproducer and adapter I adjust the counterweight to it's heaviest setting to minimise the risk of skating.
I have to say that the MP 22 sounds fantastic.
I am surprised that the counter-weight weighs so much - it is really heavy.
Do you know what this is I wonder ? Not a needle holder I think but I can't figure out what it is ?
Please see the photographs 'below'.
Thank you for any help you can give.